busy week

[gary1621]

I have to say i took the post the same way Fishy did

 

[jojackson]

Jojackson, you are a baaaad lizard!

Guilty as charged ! LOL

 

[merumontanus]

Now, I have had my say, the last thing I will say has nothing to do with this thread. But the amount of negativity and aggression I see on these forums is too much. I now say farewell, and leave to find better sites and better people who do not engage in online bullying, and harassment. Knowledge is power, but power should never be abused.

Farewell, and i hope someone takes these comments under consideration because I assure you, I'm not the only one saying them.

DeFishy,

I understand your frustration, but I also think the latest post was intended (unsuccessfully) mostly as sarcasm-- though I have seen much more eloquent (and clear) attempts.

There are many here who take the management of these animals very seriously and have devoted their lives to keeping them successfully, so this can lead (often unjustifiably) to a passionate escalation. Chameleons are not pets and do not enjoy going camping or having their head scratched, but I agree that it's important to educate those who are willing to listen and learn in a respectful way. On the other hand (and I can tell you this from experience), it can become very frustrating when the recipient refuses to listen (and the only one who suffers is the animal)-- although I don't think this is the case with "zeechiller", so hopefully we can communicate our concerns successfully and convince her that it's in the best interest of the animal.

Either way, I hope you will reconsider your continued contributions to this forum.

Regards,

Fabián

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

jo jackson, you are soo mean. you dont have the animals best in mind.

 

[laurie]

Ok guys I will admit I take 3 of my reptiles to the local schools. I take one bearded dragon. one uro and yes one chameleon. I have programs on reptiles for K - 12. All seem to love my animals. The kids even the kignergardeners are allowed to hold the dragon & uro. In fact if the teacher is ok both are allowed to run around the room. My panther, Buddy, stays in his cage up on a table. I may or may not take him out but NO ONE touches my cham! Buddy doesn't show stress and his only interaction with the kids is when he eats a super out of my hand. I live in a small town and look at this as a chance to educate kids and the adults who are there about these wonderful creatures. I try to schedule it so I am not their very often in a row, but I enjoy it and think it is good for the kids and causes the animals no harm.

I however never have and never will take my reptiles camping.

 

[Goggles]

laurie that trip is about education and information that is how new herps keep coming into this "hobby". I see nothing wrong with that.
But... it's the camping thing that gets me.
That's all I'm going to say I'll let JJ be the mean one

 

[jojackson]

LOL, good for you Goggles, there can only be one anti-christ per forum, its tradition!

warning: burnt tongues from zapping toasted marshmallows by the campfire can be hazardous to your chams health

Atleast he didnt take it skydiving or bungy jumping!
Come back Defishy, suck it up dude, the value of what you can learn here outweighs the negatives.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

DeFishy,

I understand your frustration, but I also think the latest post was intended (unsuccessfully) mostly as sarcasm-- though I have seen much more eloquent (and clear) attempts.

Unsuccessful...that would explain this post.

Fishy, he was using Wit ant tact to defend you, and sarcasm to make other take a look at what they type and try to see another point of view. He wasn't attacking you

Jojackson, you are a baaaad lizard!

how would you express sarcasm clearly online, without prefacing with a note that the following would be of a sarcastic nature.

but moving on,

forgive me for holding back my eloquence ( aka. persuasive, powerful discourse, movingly expressive ), simply i saw no need to be persuasive or movingly expressive on this topic.

but now that you mention it maybe it was the " eloquent " replies that came before mine that moved me to throw online forum etiquette to the wind, and write without concern of format or the need to persuade anyone.

lets take a look at the " eloquent " posts im referring to.

this could be, but idk

Playpen worthy post.....

-Jay

this reeks of eloquence

I almost think this thread is a joke.
Are you kidding?
I hope so for the sake of your chameleon.

-Brad

yet another

???????????



I hope so as well.



agreed! ( I know I just added to it but is this post for real???)

and of course

I assume one would know from their perpetual smiles?

Fabián

forgive me all, being that sarcasms vehicle for delivery ( i use ) is more often then not audible tone, and pauses i will add a note before every sarcastic remark i post.

ive already pm'd him and asked him not to leave btw

 

[Pure]

I was actually a little surprised by Brad's response.

Sorry Brad I would have thought better would come from a Mod. You are human and not without fault. But here you are a mod. Last time I checked most sites look down on Mods making comments like that.

Jo,,,your still mean

edit: I am by nature an A hole...maybe even more so than Joe. But here and at other sites I try to put that aside. No one is perfect. I just think we all need to think a little before posting. The OP here is obviously young, and really not deserving of the crucification he/she has gotten over this. I think a more productive approach would have been to simply point out his errors and leave it at that.

double edit: That is unless he/she wanted to argue the fact...then well...bring it on!

 

[Eric Adrignola]

There's nothing wrong with taking a chameleon on a trip, or to school for educational things. I do it all the time. Several times a year. It's stressful to them for sure. Thing is, a stressful condition isn't likely to really hurt a healthy chameleon.

going camping might be a bit much, but maybe not. unless your'e messing with it constantly, and it has time to relax by itself, it should be fine. Normally, they're best left alone.

Chameleons are not like dogs or parrots or even bearded dragons (except some melleri), and are not like cuddly friendly pets - we got that out. But do NOT ridicule people. Do not frikking do it. Ever. Seriously people, grow up. New owners just do not know stuff like this. Do not put them down, make fun of them, or criticize them in a sarcastic, mean-spirited way that only us informed chameleon keepers will get. It's like bullying the new kid at school.

Out of everyone on this forum, I know there are very few people who really get out and educate people on chameleons. I'm one of them. I see the ignorance, mistakes and occational stupidity first hand - but I know better than to MOCK people.

That is NOT how you educate people on this stuff. If I had put up an INNOCENT post like the one above, and I was mocked by people on the forum, I woudl be apt to not come back. How's that going to help the hobby?

 

[merumontanus]

I was actually a little surprised by Brad's response.

Sorry Brad I would have thought better would come from a Mod. You are human and not without fault. But here you are a mod. Last time I checked most sites look down on Mods making comments like that.

Jo,,,your still mean

edit: I am by nature an A hole...maybe even more so than Joe. But here and at other sites I try to put that aside. No one is perfect. I just think we all need to think a little before posting. The OP here is obviously young, and really not deserving of the crucification he/she has gotten over this. I think a more productive approach would have been to simply point out his errors and leave it at that.

double edit: That is unless he/she wanted to argue the fact...then well...bring it on!

"Young" is an unfair assumption to make. It has nothing to do with age. The point some of us are trying to make is that chameleons are not and will never be "pet-like", and although they may fair well under certain stressful situations (like an educational trip to a school or a trade show) provided they are being cared for by competent people (we have all seen chameleons at shows kept under unacceptable conditions-- and the opposite is true as well), they will never love you, prefer you over another keeper, or have the kind of cognitive capacity we so often (as humans) try to impose on animals. It's okay to anthropomorphize non-creative beings by giving them cute names, taking to them (and even believing they can hear you, understand you, and even respond to you), as much as they do not, but when this practice is used to put the animal under unnecessary stress, it is worthy to point out the reality for the well being of the animal.

Again, I do not believe the owner has bad intentions or will not listen to our recommendations, but it wasn't the initial responses that prompted DeFishy to snap, but the ambiguous, pseudo-sarcastic post (which I myself had a difficult time reading and understanding) that derailed the conversation.

Hopefully we can get back on topic.

Fabián

 

[Pure]

I didn't read your whole comment. After the first few words your attitude made me not think the rest worthy of reading. But to answer what I did read. Pretty much most who mocked this person could have put it better, and furthermore should be ashamed.

You know last night I was on and looking there were over 50 people online. Yet the forums were dead. No freaking wonder.

The age of the poster should have everything to do with it. Would you verbally abuse a 8 yr old for breaking something at your home as much as you would a 30 yr old. If so, for god sake never have children, and if you do god help them.

"Young" is an unfair assumption to make. It has nothing to do with age. The point some of us are trying to make is that chameleons are not and will never be "pet-like", and although they may fair well under certain stressful situations (like an educational trip to a school or a trade show) provided they are being cared for by competent people (we have all seen chameleons at shows kept under unacceptable conditions-- and the opposite is true as well), they will never love you, prefer you over another keeper, or have the kind of cognitive capacity we so often (as humans) try to impose on animals. It's okay to anthropomorphize non-creative beings by giving them cute names, taking to them (and even believing they can hear you, understand you, and even respond to you), as much as they do not, but when this practice is used to put the animal under unnecessary stress, it is worthy to point out the reality for the well being of the animal.

Again, I do not believe the owner has bad intentions or will not listen to our recommendations, but it wasn't the initial responses that prompted DeFishy to snap, but the ambiguous, pseudo-sarcastic post (which I myself had a difficult time reading and understanding) that derailed the conversation.

Hopefully we can get back on topic.

Fabián

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

i guess i could have said like eric, but no one really does.

im glad some one with tangible qualifications gave a non sugar coated honest opinion.


love the care sheet by the way, can i link to it in my sig( if i clean it up of course )

 

[Syn]

I was hoping the abuse towards newer members on this forum had stopped..

It had, but only momentarily. Eric has a very VERY good point.

Do not mock people. If you're going to do anything, be nice and try to help instead of scaring them away.

 

[merumontanus]

The OP here is obviously young

Pure,

I encourage you to read comments in their entirety before manufacturing uninformed assumptions. I am not worried if you're going to respond to my comments without reading them first (I refuse to have a conversation with someone who covers her/his ears), but you clearly did the same with the "OP", as you put it, or the original author of the thread, because if you had actually read her/his post carefully (or fully), you would have realized that he/she is not, in fact, a young child, but an adult (a parent, in fact), who made a conscious decision I believe is not in the best interest of the animal, and who deserves to hear others' opinions respectfully.

We can disagree about what is or is not in the best interest of an animal, but to assume that the author is a young child is an insult and an unfair assumption to the author herself. I respect children as much as I do adults, and that is why I think your conclusion on the author's age is problematic.

In the end, I have stated my position clearly, and do not disagree with making a respectful approach to those without experience-- after all, we are all here for that purpose.

Fabián

I didn't read your whole comment. After the first few words your attitude made me not think the rest worthy of reading. But to answer what I did read. Pretty much most who mocked this person could have put it better, and furthermore should be ashamed.

You know last night I was on and looking there were over 50 people online. Yet the forums were dead. No freaking wonder.

The age of the poster should have everything to do with it. Would you verbally abuse a 8 yr old for breaking something at your home as much as you would a 30 yr old. If so, for god sake never have children, and if you do god help them.

 

[Pure]

I'm sorry the comments from the OP here made me think this is a young person. I may be wrong. But either way the comments made here from others are in a mocking manner and really not fare.

I even understand how Brad and others could have thought this person is a troll..posting something like this.

All of that is irrelevant. Our little argument is irrelevant. How we treat new members is not, and some people need to be put in check.

Eric put it better than I could ever hope to.

Not reading your comments was my A hole side comming out..I apologize for that. Like I said no one is perfect. The least we can do is realize this and try to better ourselves. If nothing else I am a "perfect" model of that.

Pure,

I encourage you to read comments in their entirety before manufacturing uninformed assumptions. I am not worried if you're going to respond to my comments without reading them first (I refuse to have a conversation with someone who won't listen to the other side), but you clearly did the same with the "OP", as you put it, or the original author of the thread, because if you had actually read his post carefully (or fully), you would have realized that he/she is not, in fact, a young child, but an adult (a parent, in fact), who made a conscious decision I believe is not in the best interest of the animal.

We can disagree about what is or is not in the best interest of an animal, but to assume that the author is a young child is an insult and an unfair assumption. I respect children as much as I do adult, and is why I think your conclusion on the author's age is problematic.

In the end, I have stated my position clearly, and do not disagree with making a respectful approach to those without experience-- after all, we are all here for that purpose.

Fabián

 

[Pure]

In the end, I have stated my position clearly, and do not disagree with making a respectful approach to those without experience-- after all, we are all here for that purpose.

Also...I originally did not point out any person other than Brad. I only did so with him because he is a Mod. Like it or not he is held or should be held to a higher standard.

Your quoted sentence is exactly what I'm getting at. No one should have ridiculed this person, that is unless they had already been warned about this sort of thing and then refused our advice. If that was the case then flame on. But to the best of my knowledges this is not the case here.

Again bottom line, those who ridiculed this person and really didn't try to inform them of their error should be ashamed.

I've been on many forums. Mostly regarding fish. But I can say that the attitude here with new guys, makes me wonder how this site is even able to exist.

In no way is any of this helping the hobby.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

There's nothing wrong with taking a chameleon on a trip, or to school for educational things. I do it all the time. Several times a year. It's stressful to them for sure. Thing is, a stressful condition isn't likely to really hurt a healthy chameleon.

going camping might be a bit much, but maybe not. unless your'e messing with it constantly, and it has time to relax by itself, it should be fine. Normally, they're best left alone.

Chameleons are not like dogs or parrots or even bearded dragons (except some melleri), and are not like cuddly friendly pets - we got that out. But do NOT ridicule people. Do not frikking do it. Ever. Seriously people, grow up. New owners just do not know stuff like this. Do not put them down, make fun of them, or criticize them in a sarcastic, mean-spirited way that only us informed chameleon keepers will get. It's like bullying the new kid at school.

Out of everyone on this forum, I know there are very few people who really get out and educate people on chameleons. I'm one of them. I see the ignorance, mistakes and occational stupidity first hand - but I know better than to MOCK people.

That is NOT how you educate people on this stuff. If I had put up an INNOCENT post like the one above, and I was mocked by people on the forum, I woudl be apt to not come back. How's that going to help the hobby?

I agree completly.

Thank you for posting that Eric.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

"
Again, I do not believe the owner has bad intentions or will not listen to our recommendations, but it wasn't the initial responses that prompted DeFishy to snap, but the ambiguous, pseudo-sarcastic post (which I myself had a difficult time reading and understanding) that derailed the conversation.

Hopefully we can get back on topic.

Fabián

Well if a admirably couth gentleman such as your self has a difficult time reading and understanding my post, I must insist that every person that has read my post immediately strike it from both their short term, and long term memory. That is if one could even read or understand such a low brow post.

After all it was written in a matter of fact format.

But just for you oh pillar of good form here is the magical rule that will unlock that mystifying post #13.

Take everything that was posted as fact, and consider it to mean the opposite.

let me know if you need help, i would not care to " derail " this exchange again, with posts like





Quote:
Originally Posted by Malicious View Post
Playpen worthy post.....

-Jay
this reeks of eloquence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Ramsey View Post
I almost think this thread is a joke.
Are you kidding?
I hope so for the sake of your chameleon.

-Brad

yet another

Quote:
Originally Posted by panthercrazy View Post
???????????



I hope so as well.



agreed! ( I know I just added to it but is this post for real???)

and of course

Quote:
Originally Posted by merumontanus View Post
I assume one would know from their perpetual smiles?

Fabián


very railed " on topic " wouldnt you say fabian?

 

[merumontanus]

I really don't think Brad was out of line-- he merely wrote hoping it was a joke. No one here has used derogatory adjectives, like "troll", to refer to the author.

I am not here to speak for anyone else, but if we notice, the author is no longer here and we find ourselves in this ridiculous circular argument-- all really stemming from a misunderstanding on the "sarcastic" post, not anyone else's.

I, for one, hope the author comes back and the truly important dialogue is restored-- before this thread is closed.

Fabián

Also...I originally did not point out any person other than Brad. I only did so with him because he is a Mod. Like it or not he is held or should be held to a higher standard.

Your quoted sentence is exactly what I'm getting at. No one should have ridiculed this person, that is unless they had already been warned about this sort of thing and then refused our advice. If that was the case then flame on. But to the best of my knowledges this is not the case here.

Again bottom line, those who ridiculed this person and really didn't try to inform them of their error should be ashamed.

I've been on many forums. Mostly regarding fish. But I can say that the attitude here with new guys, makes me wonder how this site is even able to exist.

In no way is any of this helping the hobby.