Broken Leg

[eat2muchrice]

Poor little Petri (7 months) took a small fall and how is back right leg is injured, I can see it bent so I’m 80% sure it is broken and at some angles looks like an extra joint. He is still moving around and walking and can use all the muscles, softly griping my hand, but as he tries to use the leg he will reach it up into the air like he cannot position it right, almost as if it popped out of the hip socket. I know everyone will recommend taking him to the vet. There is not much I can do because it is Sunday and our emergency vet said they can only treat for pain. So my question is what happens when chameleons break their legs, what do vets do, can they be set strait and be put into a cast? Besides providing extra calcium and antibiotics is there anything else I can do for this little guy? I’m thinking there is not much can be done, just take care of him, and let the bone heal on its own.

It is really hard to get a nice picture showing his broken leg.

 

[mvad]

Wow, sorry Petri took a fall and was injured. I'm interested in seeing what people say about this. Did you see him fall?

 

[ZiggyStardust]

When I took Ghengis to the vet with a broken tail, I actually asked my vet what can be done in the case of broken bones and it is usually surgery.

 

[eat2muchrice]

Wow, sorry Petri took a fall and was injured. I'm interested in seeing what people say about this. Did you see him fall?

Thanks. No I did not see him fall, I was cleaning his cage and asked the wife to watch him while he was free ranging on a plant. The wife left him to watch the kids, when I asked her how Petri was doing, she checked and said he was now behind the dresser climbing a power cable....being hard to grip I think he fell from the ceramic vase, it is only about 2-3 ft high so he must of just landed really wrong.

When I took Ghengis to the vet with a broken tail, I actually asked my vet what can be done in the case of broken bones and it is usually surgery.

That is one of the things I'm afraid of, honestly $300-$600 surgery on a $30 chameleon..........it would also increase the chances of infection and cause huge amount of stress. I love him and all but unless he is going to die, he is going to have to walk with a limp. Sorry I sound so cruel, but I have to be responsible for my family first, like saving and paying for the kids pre-school. Good news is that he is still eating! That is going to be the most important thing for his recovery.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I understand completely.

I can't tell by your photo, but my concern is that the hip might be dislocated. If that's the case, the vet needs to pop it back in. You might want to have a vet look at him. If it is broken, he might be able to put a splint on it. There's lots of things they can do with broken bones that don't require surgery.

That is one of the things I'm afraid of, honestly $300-$600 surgery on a $30 chameleon..........it would also increase the chances of infection and cause huge amount of stress. I love him and all but unless he is going to die, he is going to have to walk with a limp. Sorry I sound so cruel, but I have to be responsible for my family first, like saving and paying for the kids pre-school. Good news is that he is still eating! That is going to be the most important thing for his recovery.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I understand completely.

I can't tell by your photo, but my concern is that the hip might be dislocated. If that's the case, the vet needs to pop it back in. You might want to have a vet look at him. If it is broken, he might be able to put a splint on it. There's lots of things they can do with broken bones that don't require surgery.

This is my thought as well.

 

[jannb]

That is one of the things I'm afraid of, honestly $300-$600 surgery on a $30 chameleon..........it would also increase the chances of infection and cause huge amount of stress. I love him and all but unless he is going to die, he is going to have to walk with a limp. Sorry I sound so cruel, but I have to be responsible for my family first, like saving and paying for the kids pre-school. Good news is that he is still eating! That is going to be the most important thing for his recovery.

I disagree with you here. Most of the pets I've had in my live came for free or just about free. No matter the price I pay for them they are all loved the same and all get the same care. It is our responsibility as an owner to care for them the very best that we can. If he needs a vet then you need to take him to a vet or give him to someone or a rescue that will. With that said, I have had a chameleon with a broken leg and she did not have to have surgery......surgery was not even mentioned. The leg was just wrapped for a few weeks and she was put on liquid calcium. As others have said, his hip might just be dislocated and need the bone put back in place. Do you have a good reptile vet with chameleon experience?

 

[lovelychams]

Oh no! Poor Petri. Hope he heals up soon.

 

[ZiggyStardust]

Thanks. No I did not see him fall, I was cleaning his cage and asked the wife to watch him while he was free ranging on a plant. The wife left him to watch the kids, when I asked her how Petri was doing, she checked and said he was now behind the dresser climbing a power cable....being hard to grip I think he fell from the ceramic vase, it is only about 2-3 ft high so he must of just landed really wrong.



That is one of the things I'm afraid of, honestly $300-$600 surgery on a $30 chameleon..........it would also increase the chances of infection and cause huge amount of stress. I love him and all but unless he is going to die, he is going to have to walk with a limp. Sorry I sound so cruel, but I have to be responsible for my family first, like saving and paying for the kids pre-school. Good news is that he is still eating! That is going to be the most important thing for his recovery.

The cost of the animal -v- the surgery (if indeed required) would not even come into it for me, I am afraid....

Yes, it can be hideously expensive, but I would always pay it, if I had to.

One of my female tortoises suffered a prolapse about 8 years ago, which necessitated the surgical removal of the underside of her shell to save her life. The bill came to just over a thousand pounds which was money that I absolutely did not have. However, I came to an arrangement with my vet prior to the surgery and she agreed that I could pay in three monthly instalments. A lot of vets will do this, if you ask.

This is by no means a criticism of you in any way, just the way that I feel and what I would do myself for any of my animals.

 

[Sanababit]

I understand that most of you love your pets and will do anything for them, i too love my pets, but if it comes to paying 300-600-1000 dlls to save it, i would rather use that money on my family and get another pet, it sounds cruel, but that is how i am and what i think, so i agree with eattomuchrice, hope it recovers

Sana

 

[Djborx]

I disagree with you here. Most of the pets I've had in my live came for free or just about free. No matter the price I pay for them they are all loved the same and all get the same care. It is our responsibility as an owner to care for them the very best that we can. If he needs a vet then you need to take him to a vet or give him to someone or a rescue that will. With that said, I have had a chameleon with a broken leg and she did not have to have surgery......surgery was not even mentioned. The leg was just wrapped for a few weeks and she was put on liquid calcium. As others have said, his hip might just be dislocated and need the bone put back in place. Do you have a good reptile vet with chameleon experience?

I absolutely agree with you Jann, you always should to take into account the cost of ownership when getting a pet, otherwise just get a Tamagotchi which won't need vet visits

 

[jajeanpierre]

I absolutely agree with you Jann, you always should to take into account the cost of ownership when getting a pet, otherwise just get a Tamagotchi which won't need vet visits

I don't agree. It always depends.

I owe my animals a good life and a pain-free life, not heroics to save them or mend them.

I have some chickens I've spent a lot of money on at vets. I've had chickens I've taken to a vet to pay to be euthanized rather than cull them myself which I am quite capable of doing. Some were just special. It didn't matter if the chicken was a $4 commercial hatchery chick or a $150 show chicken--it was all about how much that particular animal was worth to me on an emotional level.

Certain chickens are culled if there is any problem. Others get the royal treatment by an avian vet.

Ditto for my dogs and cat. Some will have a lot of money spent on them while others will live happy and comfortable lives and I won't go to a lot of trouble to prolong their lives.

With my horses, it is supposed to be a business decision although I turned out (in a field) a worthless filly for a year because her injury (bone bruising) would probably heal with time. Time with horses is expensive and the value of her time in a field and the training it would take to get her back to the races was a heck of a lot more than she was worth. I did it anyway and thankfully I didn't throw away the $20,000 it cost to rehab her.

 

[Lpsouth1978]

I don't agree. It always depends.

I owe my animals a good life and a pain-free life, not heroics to save them or mend them.

I have some chickens I've spent a lot of money on at vets. I've had chickens I've taken to a vet to pay to be euthanized rather than cull them myself which I am quite capable of doing. Some were just special. It didn't matter if the chicken was a $4 commercial hatchery chick or a $150 show chicken--it was all about how much that particular animal was worth to me on an emotional level.

Certain chickens are culled if there is any problem. Others get the royal treatment by an avian vet.

Ditto for my dogs and cat. Some will have a lot of money spent on them while others will live happy and comfortable lives and I won't go to a lot of trouble to prolong their lives.

With my horses, it is supposed to be a business decision although I turned out (in a field) a worthless filly for a year because her injury (bone bruising) would probably heal with time. Time with horses is expensive and the value of her time in a field and the training it would take to get her back to the races was a heck of a lot more than she was worth. I did it anyway and thankfully I didn't throw away the $20,000 it cost to rehab her.

I can agree with you to an extent. I think that we must take the long term comfort of the animal into consideration when making decisions about the value of going to a vet. That being said, a broken leg or dislocated hip is not a life threatening condition and will cause no long term discomfort if treated properly. It would be a shame to see this cham suffer or be euthanized over a broken bone or displacement. If the OP is unable or un willing to fix the leg, they should at least find someone who is able and willing and give the cham to them. The original cost of the animal should have nothing to do with the decision.

I have a salamander that my roommate brought home on day. I give it the best care I can even though it did not cost me anything. If it ever needs to see a vet, it will get to the vet. It is a living creature, that I chose to care for. I owe it the best chance to live a comfortable and happy life.

 

[carol5208]

I understand that most of you love your pets and will do anything for them, i too love my pets, but if it comes to paying 300-600-1000 dlls to save it, i would rather use that money on my family and get another pet, it sounds cruel, but that is how i am and what i think, so i agree with eattomuchrice, hope it recovers

Sana

Well I would hope if you did not want to spend the money to save it, then you would atleast humanely put it out of its misery or find someone who was willing to help it. And get another pet? So if something happened to that one, you would do the same??? My motto is if "you can't afford them, then don't own them". "Affording" includes vet care and unfortunately I think too often people jump into getting an animal with not taking vet bills into consideration.. I have been on this forum going on 5 yrs and I just cannot believe the hundreds of people I have seen on here who have bought chameleons but cannot afford to take them to the vet. People need to think ahead. JMHO

 

[leedragon]

I disagree with you here. Most of the pets I've had in my live came for free or just about free. No matter the price I pay for them they are all loved the same and all get the same care. It is our responsibility as an owner to care for them the very best that we can. If he needs a vet then you need to take him to a vet or give him to someone or a rescue that will. With that said, I have had a chameleon with a broken leg and she did not have to have surgery......surgery was not even mentioned. The leg was just wrapped for a few weeks and she was put on liquid calcium. As others have said, his hip might just be dislocated and need the bone put back in place. Do you have a good reptile vet with chameleon experience?

this is exactly what I talk about all the time, because of the cheap prices people just get the animals and just discard them if the cost to maintain them goes over the buying price, it is a waste of chameleons. it is a matter of responsibility you have taken a life to you care and if it needs a vet you should provide it otherwise you should npt acquire and animal, doesn't matter what the price of it it may end up needing medical assistance

 

[Carlton]

Thanks. No I did not see him fall, I was cleaning his cage and asked the wife to watch him while he was free ranging on a plant. The wife left him to watch the kids, when I asked her how Petri was doing, she checked and said he was now behind the dresser climbing a power cable....being hard to grip I think he fell from the ceramic vase, it is only about 2-3 ft high so he must of just landed really wrong.



That is one of the things I'm afraid of, honestly $300-$600 surgery on a $30 chameleon..........it would also increase the chances of infection and cause huge amount of stress. I love him and all but unless he is going to die, he is going to have to walk with a limp. Sorry I sound so cruel, but I have to be responsible for my family first, like saving and paying for the kids pre-school. Good news is that he is still eating! That is going to be the most important thing for his recovery.

I don't think you are faced with a no-win situation here. I'd make sure he has a lot of branches and foliage in his cage to help him move around safely, feed him well and hope for the best. He will either heal or adjust to whatever injury there was. I suspect it isn't as dire as you think.

 

[eat2muchrice]

I’m searching for a specialist vet in my area, I would like to know who the humane society recommends but they are closed Mondays…?... So, poor Petri will have to wait another day. Good news is that he is still active as like nothing has happened until he starts walking, his color is normal so I don’t sense he is in any extreme pain. This is sounding more like a popped socket and I am even thinking I might try to reset it myself.

First off, I would like everyone to understand that I respect everyone’s view on this topic. Everybody is different and it is important to try and understand others views. I never meant to create a debate on ones moral responsibility for ones pets but for what it’s worth here is my 3 cents.

Here is my story. When I was 14 years old I lived on the streets by myself. Sleeping in creeks, unlocked cars and abandoned houses. I had to stealing food with only the cloths on my back, you get the idea. One day in a parking lot I was hit by a car, they ran over my leg and sped off. Having no one to help I was left in the streets with a broken foot, no pain killers, cast or medical attention. Yes, life sucked but I managed. About a year later I finally was taken to a doctor who said I had fractured 3 bones in my foot. Nothing could be done since they had already healed. Till this day my foot cracks every step I take but no pain. I say this only because I understand what it is like for Petri, I have felt his pain, by all means I don’t wish this kind of thing to happen to anyone or even my pets, but sometimes life is rough.

The value of money is different for everyone, $100 to some is like $1000, while to others it’s only like $1 out of their pocket. Let’s pretend the only way to save his leg would be $100,000 and I bet not a single person on this forum would pay for it. Everyone is responsible for their pet, but not everyone can afford certain unexpected expenses or it is just not practical. That does not mean that everyone who is low income should not have a family pet or that they are irresponsible. To me that means that responsible pet owner is someone who provides and cares for their pet to the best of their ability within their means.

Morals are a tough issue. I also own a king snake that eats live mice and lizards. Lizards are his favorite food, now Petri is a lizard so why do I favor him over the others? Just because he is cool he gets to lives in a several hundred dollar habitat, gut loaded exotic goods and year round tropical weather. Then my spoiled dog, memory foam bed but still sleeps in mine, high end dog food, countless toys and I’ve spent thousands on her medical expensive, why is she the queen or my second wife compared to all the others? Morally it is all wrong here, a life is a life, but I would not spend a dime taking a feeder roach or gold fish to the vet, down the toilet they go.

I’m not lecturing people, but my overall belief is that if you do not neglect or abuse your pets then you are a good pet owner. One final note, no matter your opinion everyone involved on this forum are showing they are excellent pet owners, taking the time to learn, share and give advise are all sign of what it is takes to properly care for pets.

 

[eat2muchrice]

Well the only place in my area for a specialist veteran is fully booked until Friday. Over the phone it does not sound like there is much they can do except give him a pain injection, since he is so small they don't think they can splint it. Poor Petri is going to have to wait. I wonder if I can dust his crickets with some crushed Tylenol until his visit. Today I took him out for a better inspection and for a picture. I’m sure it’s broken, I can see and feel the snapped bone in his leg. The only thing I can do now is leave him alone and wait for his appointment. Here are some better pictures.

 

[jajeanpierre]

DO NOT GIVE HIM ANY PAIN MEDS UNLESS PRESCRIBED BY A VET!!!!!

Tylenol is incredibly toxic to liver and has a very low margin of error. The difference between a therapeutic dose for humans and one that completely destroys the liver to the point of death or a liver transplant is really small. Tylenol for some animals, dogs for example, is deadly. Dusting a cricket with it? Just exactly how much drug would that be? Tylenol is a serious drug that kills a lot of people every year.

Other pain meds are fine for one species but deadly for another. Diclofenac, a non-steroidal anti inflammatory springs to mind. That drug is wiping out the vulture populations in India--the drug is given to livestock that end up dying and the vultures do their job and clean up the carcass but die from renal failure caused by the drug.

Each species of animal processes drugs and clears the drug out of their system at a different rate. For example, dogs take twice as long to process Aspirin than humans do. You can follow the directions and dose by weight correctly but if you don't increase the time between doses, you will have an overdose very quickly simply because the animal doesn't clear the drug at the same rate as humans do.

There are disadvantages with pain meds besides toxicity and their interference with the bone-healing process. Sometimes it is good to make sure the animal knows he is hurt so he will protect the hurt leg.

You are probably okay to just let it heal up on its own. I certainly wouldn't be handling him as he'll struggle to try to avoid the predator (you) and be more likely to hurt himself in the process of avoiding capture, regardless of how tame he is.

Some things to think about is why that leg is broken.

A natural defense strategy for chameleons is to drop out of the trees, sometimes from quite a height. I've read that sometimes females will do that to avoid a male. They don't usually break. I don't think a female would choose to avoid the unwanted advances of a male with a life-threatening escape strategy.

Does he have undiagnosed MBD? That would explain why he broke his leg from a small fall. There is, of course, also the possibility that someone handled him too roughly and either didn't realize it or is not coming clean.

Peti's fracture doesn't seem to involve joints, so when it heals, he should be fine.

When a bone heals, it dissolves itself at the edges of the fracture and forms a callus around the fracture, whether a complete fracture or just a crack. That callus is a natural cast. Your major concern with him is getting his calcium right so he will be able to heal. For that, you might want to take him to a vet for advice.

His fracture in practical terms is no different than the sad cases of MBD you see posted on this forum.

Good luck.

Well the only place in my area for a specialist veteran is fully booked until Friday. Over the phone it does not sound like there is much they can do except give him a pain injection, since he is so small they don't think they can splint it. Poor Petri is going to have to wait. I wonder if I can dust his crickets with some crushed Tylenol until his visit. Today I took him out for a better inspection and for a picture. I’m sure it’s broken, I can see and feel the snapped bone in his leg. The only thing I can do now is leave him alone and wait for his appointment. Here are some better pictures.

 

[distortionz]

I totally agree with you do what you can within your means. You can't miss your mortgage or putting food on the plate to gamble on a pet.. I will do everything I can to save my animals but at some point there is a line drawn.. I had a cat 2 years ago whose kidneys started failing and between meds and treatments I spent well over $2000 and the cat still had to be put down.. he was only 5 years old if he was 15 I probably wouldn't have spent that much.. I feel there is a lot to take into consideration.. if I know with certainty that they can save an animal I will pay.. but when it comes down to a dice roll is when the line gets thinner.. I've taken out care credit cards to pay vet bills.. and in the end being a responsible owner to me is making the best decision in the interest of your pet.. and unfortunately that isn't always the one that keeps them alive.

Best of wishes to Petri hope it heals good