Breeding Panthers

[Eleni 73]

I'm interested in breeding panther chameleons, not for profit, but for experience. I plan to have a setup with about 20 cages, though space to add more if there is a larger batch than anticipated. Each one will have a 12" diameter and be 24" tall. I plan to add small ficus benjamina and/or dracaena marginata to each along with pothos and perhaps some other plants. The overall room temperature is 75° during the day, but may drop to 70° at night, I will also add heat lamps and uvb to all enclosures, they will have heat bulbs from the start, and I will slowly adjust then to the bulbs when they are a few weeks. If the room ends up cooler than anticipated, however, I will add low wattage heat lamps earlier on. I also have the ability to build larger enclosures if I can't sell them all. I will breed my own fruit flies, Indian walking sticks, house crickets, and some type of worm. I'm going be placing cardboard or poster paper between enclosures to prevent them from seeing eachother, as well. This is my plan for the babies, let me know if anything seems off.

Each of the parents will have a 24×24×48" screen enclosure with tons of live plants and decor and such. I will first attempt to place the female in the male's cage, but if it doesn't seem to work well, I will put the male in the female's. I will wait until they are each 1 year old, and until the female is pinkish in color. After this, I will put an egg box in the female's cage and when eggs are layed move them to a container and place it in a dark, warm area. I'll check them a few times a month until it's been about somewhere around 71/2 months, when I will check weekly, at 9 months I'll check more frequently. The container will have a clear lid and ventilation so I don't have to worry about taking the lid off. After each one hatches, I'll move them to the enclosures mentioned.

I just have a few questions:

1. Would you recommend having smaller enclosures for the newly hatched chameleons? I was thinking I could make some tubes 6" in diameter and 12" tall, or slighty larger/smaller.

2. I am planning on selling them at around 3-6 months old, preferably on the lower side, would the 12"×24" enclosures be good till then?

3. What price would be recommended for male/female at this age? I'm really not looking for profit, at all, it is truly for experience as I'd like to get into breeding of endangered animals to help keep their numbers up at some point and would like some experience breeding more simple animals and makeep my way up from there. These and kenyan sand boas are going to be the first of the reptiles I have bred.

4. If I can't sell some, do you think it would be easy enough to ofer them to people who keep chameleons for free? My main worry with this is attracting people who just want one, but don't want to spend money. Any thoughts on this?

5. Are panthers a good first breeder choice? I will breed my kenyan sand boas and have had experience breeding fish and aquatic frogs, but nothing like this.

6. I also want to have a bit of fun with genetics, what kind of offspring would some from having two different locals? Would you get different traits from each parent so each one would be unique, or would they look mostly simialr, taking after one parent more than the other?

 

[Alexander1]

If you give away your chams for free or very cheap you effect the market for these animals. People that breed these animals and spend time and money should get rewarded for the hard work. When you give these animals to people that think they're a cheap pet you may be putting them at risk for neglect, maybe not purposely but it's usually how it works, veileds are a good example of this practice.

 

[Eleni 73]

Those were some concerns of mine, which is why I would like to start by selling them. The only reason I would be giving them away for free would be because I had babies that were getting too big and I had to get rid of them. It'd be a last resort type of thing. I'd be able to keep a few that don't get sold, but it would be best if they all got homes. Thank you.

 

[acarrera]

Those were some concerns of mine, which is why I would like to start by selling them. The only reason I would be giving them away for free would be because I had babies that were getting too big and I had to get rid of them. It'd be a last resort type of thing. I'd be able to keep a few that don't get sold, but it would be best if they all got homes. Thank you.

I don't think you'll have a hard time selling the babies, providing that they are healthy. I've been following the market for baby panthers for past couples of months and they seem to sell out very quickly, especially when priced low (i.e., $50-65 a piece). If breeding is where your passion is, you will not regret it. Good luck.

 

[Ilike4hornedchams]

A lot to address in this post, but first I wanna say this, 20 cages, are these for the babies or the parents? Because a breeding operation of this scale would be a part time job at the LEAST like 4 hours of work a day. So DO NOT get that commited unless you can literally do this for a part time job and have the funds for the initial costs of getting going. Other wise you skimping out on things like lights or supplements will result in sick and dead chams.

2nd one post is far from enough for us to address how good the living conditions you have are, we would need pics and temps and humidity readings that are accurate.

My thoughts on your other questions;
1. Yes, and those sized sound good, but I would also add that for the first 30 days most all panthers can co-exist in a large enclosure. I common way I see people keeping clutches separate.

2. Yup, 12wx12lx24tall is good till they're 6mo to even 9mo old for slow growers so ya.

3. @ 3 months Males $150 females $125, @ 6+monthst males $200+ females $150 and @adulthood males $300 or more, females $200.

4. I agree with this guy and let me tell you why!

If you give away your chams for free or very cheap you effect the market for these animals. People that breed these animals and spend time and money should get rewarded for the hard work. When you give these animals to people that think they're a cheap pet you may be putting them at risk for neglect, maybe not purposely but it's usually how it works, veileds are a good example of this practice.

So my first two cham's were free and how I got em was a long story but it was a Jacksons and an Ambilobe panther. I was only like 12 and I had NOT done TONs of research on the guys and they guy gifting them did not sit me down to explain in detail how to properly care for them so I did not think lights were that important... i regret what came next. i first lost the Ambilobe tragically to a hawk while i was letting him enjoy the outdoors and then the Jackson to MBD and a moth tumor that was there before I got him. he died a slow and painful death. Had I spent any of my own money on them I honestly know that I would have done more research and cared better for them. I regret the learning curve but since then I had a long 8 year period without chams and they had gotten me hooked and I didn't know it. Now I love em take excellent care for them and have 9 chams total lol >.< buuut the point is this You GOTTA sell them. Its for the chams IF NOT for YOU! plus giving them away for EVER less than $100 just hurts the market a lot.. $100 is cheap enough man trust me, unless their eggs $100 is a great deal but if you personally wanna sell a lot you can sell them at reduced prices in bulk to STORES that you can personally deliver to and be sure hey can care for them for months to come. I have never done this yet but maybe someday I have a small op tho.. (Gotta keep it fun for yourself and NOT a tiresome job!)

5. Are panthers a good first breeder choice? Only of you have 2 years of experience keeping them alive without health problems already under your belt!

6. Last thing just wanna say this is fun and exciting but you may get some dude with terrible colors and no one will want them, what do you do? Hard to say, giving them away cheap is a solution as long as your not a lying jerk and tell people they're something they are not.

Last thing the prices i mentioned only apply to Panthers, Jackson's, Vieled's and others are often very different.

 

[Eleni 73]

Thank you, that post was extreemly helpful.

The 20 cages would be for the babies, I'd only have one pair of adults. I am also wondering if you would recommend a butterfly cage for the first month or so? Also, would 5-8 cages of the same size would be sufficient? I'd separate by size and ideally have most sold by 4 months.

I can't give you much more info on the temps/humidity since I don't have them yet. The basking area for the adults would be no more than 90 degrees, and the lower cage temps wouldn't drop below 75. Humidity would probably be around 70-80%. The babies would have an overall temp of 75 and after they are a bit more stable, they'd have a basking temp of 80 degrees. They'd all have UVB, the adults would have the reptisun 10.0 and the babies would have 5.0. When it comes closer to the time of breeding and such all post pics and exact numbers.

As far as the pricing, I'll go with the prices you suggested or close to that. I'm going to keep pure locales for now, but maybe some time in the future I'll mix them.

 

[Link]

Find a responsible breeder and responsible pet stores. Don't give them away. I know people would like the flood the market but in the long run it'll probably hurt it more. The fun is in the future of This Magnificent species

 

[Link]

Trust me. I have a ton of babies in the burden that is put on you having them all just be responsible. just my advice this site is great for getting invoice from other people