Beginner ambanja x ambilobe breeding

[db3]

as the title states i am a first time breeder of these amazing reptiles. before aquiring these two ive had plenty of reptiles but never any breeding. i bought a beautiful ambanja male from screameleons about 3-4 months ago, he is currently 8 months old. my female came in this month she is 9 months old and apparently ready to breed.

my problem is my female ambilobe is like 1.5x bigger than my male. im looking to try in the next month or two. will the size differnece matter? should i try to feed more to my male to beef him up for the next month or two? been gut feeding crickets and also giving waxworms. also does ambilobes grow faster than the ambanjas because i feed him like 7 crickets (small ones) and a waxworm and hes still small compared to the female, which is only a month older.

the female also seems like she was fed in the cage as i use the cup method. my male that i have been raising is turning out to b a real stud. his colors are amazing and his temperment couldnt be better. he has no issues with being picked up or held. never once has he opened his mouth towards me. the female sits at the top and doesnt move much, she tolerates being held but nowhere like my male. a week or two after i got her i put the male ontop of her cage (not inside) just to see how they would interact. they both stayed still for like ten mins and just stared at each other. after the ten mins my male walked across the top of the females cage back to the top of his cage, once he was over to his cage he opened his mouth for like 2 secs and then walked back inside.

couple more questions for the professionals..

* does she turn dark with orange when shes ready to breed or when she has eggs already?

* should they not be able to see each other, i.e, cages not next to each other without a barrier.

* best way to bulk up my male, safely

thank you to everyone who contributes i am a beginner with these creatures but already enjoy every aspect of them. i will be breeding soon so i would love some positive help instead of hearing i am going to fast..i am confident in breeding chameleons but like everything i do i seek more experienced help in order to higher my chances of quality offspring.

Thanks again!! ps- will post pictures soon if that helps

 

[robmd1]

my only question for you sense your new is why breed mutts? you wont get as much for them and females will be hard to get rid of so i dont understand why you wouldnt breed pure locals instead of crosses?

 

[Warrix642]

I would not do thatif I were you. You WILL be stuck with a bunch of female muts because no one will buy a mixed female.

Dustin

 

[robmd1]

I would not do thatif I were you. You WILL be stuck with a bunch of female muts because no one will buy a mixed female.

Dustin

i agree and then the females get sold off as unknown an end up ruining the pure bloodlines people work so hard on keeping pure. if ya wanna breed chams stick to pure lines an not waste your time with mutts, this is my opinion....

 

[db3]

not concerned with getting them sold. not everyone does as much research about them and most girls want girls and most guys want guys. i want to mix breed because of all the gems that come out of different locals. obviously down the line i will be getting another female and if for some reason the mixes dont sell which i already have the first 15 sold then i will buy an ambanja female that is already ready to breed.

i was under the impression that the females have soild colors and dont change much but my ambilobe turns a few solid colors and has deep purple spots, yellows and pink spots. this is why i bought her for breeding. i also breed plants and have had great success with cross breeding, the "mutts" range from shit to never before seen, they are priced accordingly.

any information on the accually breeding project is still up for discussion, thanks

 

[Julirs]

not concerned with getting them sold. not everyone does as much research about them and most girls want girls and most guys want guys.

OK-this statement deserves an award for the biggest amount of BS ever put in words on this forum. Please don't breed anything.

 

[reptoman]

not concerned with getting them sold. not everyone does as much research about them and most girls want girls and most guys want guys. i want to mix breed because of all the gems that come out of different locals. obviously down the line i will be getting another female and if for some reason the mixes dont sell which i already have the first 15 sold then i will buy an ambanja female that is already ready to breed.

i was under the impression that the females have soild colors and dont change much but my ambilobe turns a few solid colors and has deep purple spots, yellows and pink spots. this is why i bought her for breeding. i also breed plants and have had great success with cross breeding, the "mutts" range from shit to never before seen, they are priced accordingly.

any information on the accually breeding project is still up for discussion, thanks

The first 15 are easy. For panthers, you are looking at at least 3 clutches of 25 eggs each laid about 2 months apart or so from a single mating. That could easily turn into a possible 4 clutches. That comes to around 100 eggs that will be hatching in 6 to 9 months after they are laid. Even for pure bred ambilobes or ambanjas you will have to work to find all of them homes. Well established breeders that already have the means to feed and house all of the babies have a little trouble getting all of them sold. just my 2 cents.
If you are still set one breeding a cross, you need to probably wait until you male is 10 to 12 months old before he wil be able to get the job done. The female will be a light color when receptive. Most people will show the female to the male and observe if she keeps her light pink/peach colors and turns her back to the male she is ready. If she turns dark, begins to sway or shows stress in any way, she is not receptive.

 

[Chuck G]

OK-this statement deserves an award for the biggest amount of BS ever put in words on this forum. Please don't breed anything.

I have an official crush on you!
As far as the questions go,ask Vincent where you purchased the male.
He can answer all your questions.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."does she turn dark with orange when shes ready to breed or when she has eggs already?"...these are non-receptive or gravid colors.

You need to learn how to go about mating them too...its not just good to put the two together IMHO.

A sexually mature female may start to cycle to produce eggs if she can see the male....so IMHO I wouldn't let them see each other until you/they are ready to breed.

 

[Julirs]

I have an official crush on you!
As far as the questions go,ask Vincent where you purchased the male.
He can answer all your questions.

LOL! Chuck! You are silly!

Truly-yet another thread that shows inexperienced people breeding mixed locales and infecting the gene pool. This is a truly wonderful example.

db3-You purchased a male from a reputable breeder, so why not get a female of the same locale?

You would be doing yourself a huge favor to gain some experience from keeping chameleons before jumping into breeding.

 

[db3]

ok so its truely killing the gene pool but yet every breeder sells them. even the al mighty vincent is currently selling them. the ones i do sell will be labeled for the breeds they are. they also wont be $400 either like you reputal breeders. pretty negitive forum. my opinion it is as easy as it sounds. they are the same species just located miles apart. dont understand why my questions are so hard to answer. i was planning on waiting at least a month or two before breeding plus still have to wait for her to be ready. i joined this site to gain knowledge so i would be ready when the time comes. ill wait for a few more responces.

 

[Julirs]

Not every breeder sells mixed locales. And you will find most reputable breeders here and site sponsors sell pure babies for $150-$250, you won't get $400 unless it is an older animal of a popular bloodline.

Sometimes the people in this forum can sound "negative", but you are on a forum of experienced, passionate people that are here to help people. That does not stop us from telling people they are wrong. If you want honest answers and the best help around you are at the right place.

Age and size are important when breeding. I would wait until she is at least a year, or 11+ months and a good size. Your male will be able to do the deed a little younger.

Your female will turn a light peach or pink when she is receptive.

Do NOT powerfeed your male. This is dangerous and could cause many issues.

They should NOT be able to see each other on a regular basis.

Now if you truly want to learn if you are doing things right, you could fill out this form and let people check your husbandry.
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

This way your animals will be of optimal health, which is very important prior to breeding. You do not want to end up with an eggbound/dead female, and you do not want a bunch of sickly babies that die within a few weeks after you wait 9 months for them to hatch.

If I were you, I would still get either an Ambilobe or an Ambanja and breed pure. People are being honest-you may be able to wholesale babies for $40-$50 just to get rid of them, or to local petstores for a little more (where you animals end up in the hands of the inexperienced-I personally refuse to see to Petstores but of course that is your choice). All of the people that say they want them now more than likely will not when they are ready to sell in approximately 14 months. Don't count your lizards before they hatch.

 

[warpdrive]

OK-this statement deserves an award for the biggest amount of BS ever put in words on this forum. Please don't breed anything.

I don't know if I agree. Rob seems to get my vote for saying that a breeder who is working hard at keeping things pure, and what - buying an unknown female in the same sentence is pretty BS to me.

I would love to meet any breeder who's aim is to breed pure, will buy an unknown female for breeding.
This is BS.
It doesn't happen.
Even the mighty Chris Anderson couldn't prove this the last time this came up, and I called him on it.

It just doesn't happen.
No real breeder ever buys an unknown in order to keep a line pure...no one.

Harry

 

[Chuck G]

I don't want to get off topic with this guy asking for help but I have never been able to come up with one reason to cross breed panthers. They don't have enough color as is? They usually look worse. There are exceptions that I have seen with outstanding colors but it is always a gamble. I personally don't want a bunch of mixed females out there. The only reason I could come up with is pure and simple..MONEY. I have had hundreds of oppurtunities to breed receptive females to different locale males and didn't do it. It would usually center around a male that didn't want to breed for whatever reason and I would have a male from a different locale that was ready.What do I do? Miss an oppurtunity to make money on a group of mixed panthers? I decided a long time ago if you get into the breeding of anything for the money you will always lose sight of why you started working with the animal to begin with. I don't care for puggles,labradoodles or other man made experiments either.This is just my opinion and not a knock on people that have their own reasons for doing so.

 

[robmd1]

I don't know if I agree. Rob seems to get my vote for saying that a breeder who is working hard at keeping things pure, and what - buying an unknown female in the same sentence is pretty BS to me.

I would love to meet any breeder who's aim is to breed pure, will buy an unknown female for breeding.
This is BS.
It doesn't happen.
Even the mighty Chris Anderson couldn't prove this the last time this came up, and I called him on it.

It just doesn't happen.
No real breeder ever buys an unknown in order to keep a line pure...no one.

Harry

omg you kiddin me?> i wouldnt buy an unknown female ive learned my lesson trustin people in it for a buck, i also think that ur bs if ya dont think people miss label or down rite lie to you about wtf it is dont drag me onto ur bs harry,i gavemy two cents on the mutt issue

 

[warpdrive]

omg you kiddin me?> i wouldnt buy an unknown female ive learned my lesson trustin people in it for a buck, i also think that ur bs if ya dont think people miss label or down rite lie to you about wtf it is dont drag me onto ur bs benny, i said my two cents on the mutt issue...

First off, that is a totally different topic...but ill play this game.

There will always be animals that are miss labeled or sellers who will be totally dishonest.
Any buyer who chooses to buy such an animal does so at their own peril, and is totally at fault..not the dishonest seller.
In other words, I believe in taking responsibility for our own actions. As a buyer that means doing your homework before you do something stupid.

Even you state that you have learned your lesson...that means you are aware of your errors.
Or in other words, you are taking responsibility for YOUR actions, not blaming the actions of the seller.

Once again, a true, well informed, responsible, respected, and honest breeder would never buy an unknown female, or buy from someone he/she doesn't trust to add this female into a line in order to keep it pure.
Once again, this is a myth. A fallacy. Does not happen.
If it does happen, then the seller is not an informed, well respected breeder and
Thus no respected breeder should buy from them...and if you do, then once again the buyer does so at their own peril.

They might buy an unlabeled, or mislabeled WC female that they are willing to "test" and see if its the correct local...but would never think that the line should remain pure just because they wish it to.

Sorry, I fail to see your points. Make them clearer or on topic so we could at least agree to disagree instead of going on about whole different topics each time we post.

Harry

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hello
It sounds like you have a fair bit of learning to do before you should breed. Not least of which is understanding the animals you have are too young at present, and to understand what signs they give when ready to breed.

Also, Waxworms are a terrible feeder choice. You may want to do some research on properly feeding your chameleons. Best way to have your male "bulk up" is to feed it properly, not over feed, and wait for him to grow naturally.

And it is good advice, whether you like it or not, to be wary of breeding crosses - it will indeed limit your ability to find good homes for the offspring, espcially as you have no reputation to support you. Much better to breed pure locals. Better still to have kept chameleons for several years and be sure of your husbandry before making babies.

Within this blog entry are many links to websites and previous threads on this forum that will help you learn:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/63-links-regarding-breeding.html


edit: chuck - not everyone breeds purely for the money (there's not much money to be made, and pretty much NO money to be made on crosses). There ARE other reasons for wanting a cross. Not saying the OP has good reasons, but others might.

 

[Chuck G]

Hello
It sounds like you have a fair bit of learning to do before you should breed. Not least of which is understanding the animals you have are too young at present, and to understand what signs they give when ready to breed.

Also, Waxworms are a terrible feeder choice. You may want to do some research on properly feeding your chameleons. Best way to have your male "bulk up" is to feed it properly, not over feed, and wait for him to grow naturally.

And it is good advice, whether you like it or not, to be wary of breeding crosses - it will indeed limit your ability to find good homes for the offspring, espcially as you have no reputation to support you. Much better to breed pure locals. Better still to have kept chameleons for several years and be sure of your husbandry before making babies.

Within this blog entry are many links to websites and previous threads on this forum that will help you learn:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/63-links-regarding-breeding.html


edit: chuck - not everyone breeds purely for the money (there's not much money to be made, and pretty much NO money to be made on crosses). There ARE other reasons for wanting a cross. Not saying the OP has good reasons, but others might.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

LOL smart ass

 

[Chuck G]

LOL smart ass

Just blowing kisses up north.