Back leg grabbing

[Dgood]

Hey everybody, been a while since I've been on here, was just wondering about a few things about my panther cham, I'll post the husbandry info soon. I I've had my Male panther for bout 7 years, his hatch date was November 15th 2013. I just noticed recently he has started grabbing his front leg with his back leg and its causing him to lose his balance. Has anyone experienced leg grabbing in older chams? I'm contemplating going to the vet given his age as it may cause too much stress. Anyone have any info on this? As mentioned earlier I'll post my husbandry info soon.

 

[Beman]

@jannb @kinyonga thoughts on this with an older cham?

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a couple of recent photos of him please.
What's your supplement schedule...please be precise...especially about calcium, phos, D3 and vitamin A (is it prOformed or prEformed). When did you change your UVB last?
It might be a calcium issue.

 

[jannb]

When they have MBD they often do the leg grabbing. They can also grab their legs like that when they are in pain and probably for other reasons, too. I recommend a good check up with a vet that knows chameleons. Request bloodwork and xrays. When they get older they often get arthritis and there’s some really good meds for that these days. There’s some good pain meds, too.

 

[Dgood]

Here he is. I use repti calcium without d3 at just about every feeding. Maybe once a month he will go with out, rep call phosphorus free once every two weeks and reptivite with out d3 every 2 weeks. I will switch off d3 one week end and the next will be multi vitamin. I looked on the multi vitamin for forms of vitamin A and it doesnt say. Just says plain old vitamin A. U.v.b bulb it's a reptisun 10.0 48" length, last time I changed it was about 5-6 months ago, I change them on a 6-8 month basis

 

[Dgood]

I'm working on the husbandry form now. I'll have that up soon

 

[Dgood]

Thanks Jann, I was thinking that also given his age, he is still a champ at eating and drinking and is pretty active through out the day. Hes never been to the vet before, I know it's bad . But I have never had any issues so never had the need. Do you think that would be too stressful for him given his age?

 

[kinyonga]

Your supplements look good. From what I've learned, seen, read, older chameleons seem to be prone to not getting enough calcium into the bones and muscles and do things like this. I have no studies to prove it...it's just seems to be logical to me. I'm not a vet either BTW

 

[Dgood]

Your supplements look good. From what I've learned, seen, read, older chameleons seem to be prone to not getting enough calcium into the bones and muscles and do things like this. I have no studies to prove it...it's just seems to be logical to me. I'm not a vet either BTW

I just checked expiration dates on the supplements and looks like calcium is expired by a couple months, same with d3, I'm grabbing new supplements tonight. Could that possibly be the issue? I made a vet appointment at c.s.u. just to be safe. Thankfully they have good exotic vets there. Ferritinmyshoes said to me that they are good many years ago. And sorry about the husbandry form, just got off work and gotta take care of a few things before I get that posted up. Thanks to everyone that has commented so far

 

[kinyonga]

I'm not sure that calcium goes bad..but maybe the D3 does. I'm not a pharmacist either! If either does then it could be part of the problem. Do you change the UVB light when you're supposed to?

 

[Dgood]

I'm not sure that calcium goes bad..but maybe the D3 does. I'm not a pharmacist either! If either does then it could be part of the problem. Do you change the UVB light when you're supposed to?

Right!! I'm not sure either, has an expiration for a reason I guess. I change uvb bulbs every 6 to 8 months, he is due to have it changed begining of February

 

[Ramrod]

Right!! I'm not sure either, has an expiration for a reason I guess. I change uvb bulbs every 6 to 8 months, he is due to have it changed begining of February

Well the old saying is "when in doubt,throw it out."

 

[Dgood]

Husbandry info:
Male panther chameleon 7+ years old
Had him since he was about 6 months old. He really never gets handled other then the occasional free range. He eats crickets, Dubia roaches and horn worms. With the occasional calcium worm and silk worms. He will eat 4-6 crickets/roaches every other day with a few worms in between. For gutloading I will finely chop up butternut squash, apples, mustard greens, or collard greens( one or the other each time) mango,papaya, and sometimes blackberries. For dry gutload I will do bug buffet from full throttle feeders. Supplements were mentioned above. I have a mistking system that mists every hour and a half or 2 hours for 1.5 to 2 minutes. I struggle with humidity in colorado, I also have a cool mist humidifier that I run into the cage. He currently lives in a 5ftx4ftx2ft custom made cage with 3 solid sides and a screen front door, and top. He has a combo of fake and live plants, live plants are umbrella plants, golden pothos, and dracaena plants. All with rock ontop of the soil, to prevent indigestion. He has normal incandescent house bulbs for basking and reptisun 48" 10.0 uvb bulb. He will get about 12 hours on and 12 hours off his lights. His humidity will be at the lowest 40% and highest after mistings around 90%.Basking temp will be 88-92 and lower temps to 75ish. Lowest overnight temps get down to 65, he is located in my unfinished basement. I created I room for him and my other panther who is older down there, top of his cage is about 6ft or a little more off the ground.

 

[Shanar808]

There’s a few possibilities but without a vet visit it would be really hard to pinpoint. I can’t see from the pics but he looks healthy, maybe a little plump? Or possibly your light needs changing soon, I purchased a light that dimmed within a week and died at 1 month so my girl was not getting sufficient uvb from it for a while, luckily she was getting daily sun so she’s ok. It could even be beginning stages of gout. I think more research needs to be done on chameleon supplement needs in elderly chameleons. Hope your baby gets better!

 

[Dgood]

When they have MBD they often do the leg grabbing. They can also grab their legs like that when they are in pain and probably for other reasons, too. I recommend a good check up with a vet that knows chameleons. Request bloodwork and xrays. When they get older they often get arthritis and there’s some really good meds for that these days. There’s some good pain meds, too.

Jannb I was wondering if you could give me a little insight on the upcoming vet visit. He is going to c.s.u next friday (soonest he could get in) and I'm a little unsure how he will handle it. Hes never been to the vet before and being an old timer cham im not sure how hell handle the stress. Any tips, advice, any info would be great.

 

[Dgood]

There’s a few possibilities but without a vet visit it would be really hard to pinpoint. I can’t see from the pics but he looks healthy, maybe a little plump? Or possibly your light needs changing soon, I purchased a light that dimmed within a week and died at 1 month so my girl was not getting sufficient uvb from it for a while, luckily she was getting daily sun so she’s ok. It could even be beginning stages of gout. I think more research needs to be done on chameleon supplement needs in elderly chameleons. Hope your baby gets better!

Yes hes a little plump, just ate very well that morning haha. Thanks for the thoughts, hes going to the vet soon so we shall see what they say

 

[jannb]

Jannb I was wondering if you could give me a little insight on the upcoming vet visit. He is going to c.s.u next friday (soonest he could get in) and I'm a little unsure how he will handle it. Hes never been to the vet before and being an old timer cham im not sure how hell handle the stress. Any tips, advice, any info would be great.

Do you ever handle him? He should be fine. I have always used vets for my chameleons and all of them have always done very well.

 

[Dgood]

Update:
I ended up taking mr little in to c.s.u. today because I found him on the bottom of his cage, must have fell from the top which is about 4-5ft drop. Obviously I was concerned and took him to make sure no fall damage. They said he's damn healthy. Calcium/phosphorus levels were good and x rays showed no signs of any damage from the fall, and no mbd as well. All organs were functioning properly, the only thing that was not right was his uric acid levels, they were slightly elevated. They said this was the oldest captive chameleon c.s.u has seen . Makes me damn proud of the little guy. As for the leg grabbing, sounds like at this point they thought it was the beginning stages of gout due to elevated uric acid levels. He is in a smaller temporary cage for now so there is no risk of falling. He will go back next Friday to do blood work again and check on uric acid levels again. Gotta love when your heart drops when you see your beloved buddy laying on the ground and not moving. Uggghhhh

 

[ERKleRose]

Awesome, keep us updated! Here’s to a full recovery and he stays kicking for more years to come!

 

[Shanar808]

I’m glad they figured it out, I did suspect the gout. I’ve read a lot of information on gout and it will be important to hydrate well, add a couple hours to your fogging sessions will help a lot. Good luck to you and your little one!