Back leg grabbing

Dgood

Established Member
Thank you both for the reply, i forgot to mention they did collect a stool sample also, still waiting on results on that. They said it looked normal but was slightly dehydrated, they did give him some warm fluids also. C.s.u was awesome, they called me about the exam multiple times( due to covid im not allowed to go in there) and walked me through what was happening the whole time. Top notch service.
 

Shanar808

Avid Member
Gout is linked with dehydration and high uric acid from high oxalates. Also over-feeding and obesity can be linked to gout. I found this a while ago during my Gutload research to avoid high oxalate vegetables in my crickets diet.
 

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ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Gout is linked with dehydration and high uric acid from high oxalates. Also over-feeding and obesity can be linked to gout. I found this a while ago during my Gutload research to avoid high oxalate vegetables in my crickets diet.
There is at least one inconsistency in that chart with broccoli being a good gutload choice (it isn’t)

Edit: along with celery being a good choice (it isn’t). I’m sure there’s more errors in that as well

Edit 2: never mind, it is an oxalates chart, so just ignore me!
 
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ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
This is not a gut-load List, please don’t base on this alone, I compared this chart with high calcium food charts and eliminate any high gassy foods and line up with the recommended Gutload lists. It was just a resource I had.
Shoot, sorry, I read your comment saying gutload and didn’t read the actual title of the chart! Sorry, again!
 

Ramrod

Chameleon Enthusiast
Update:
I ended up taking mr little in to c.s.u. today because I found him on the bottom of his cage, must have fell from the top which is about 4-5ft drop. Obviously I was concerned and took him to make sure no fall damage. They said he's damn healthy. Calcium/phosphorus levels were good and x rays showed no signs of any damage from the fall, and no mbd as well. All organs were functioning properly, the only thing that was not right was his uric acid levels, they were slightly elevated. They said this was the oldest captive chameleon c.s.u has seen 😃. Makes me damn proud of the little guy. As for the leg grabbing, sounds like at this point they thought it was the beginning stages of gout due to elevated uric acid levels. He is in a smaller temporary cage for now so there is no risk of falling. He will go back next Friday to do blood work again and check on uric acid levels again. Gotta love when your heart drops when you see your beloved buddy laying on the ground and not moving. Uggghhhh
I am familiar with gout as I suffer from it myself and when it flares up it is very painful and makes walking almost impossible.
I take medication to keep uric acid levels in check but not sure if they have a medication for chams that would do the same.
Good to hear he is healthy otherwise and best to you both.😎
 

Dgood

Established Member
Gout is linked with dehydration and high uric acid from high oxalates. Also over-feeding and obesity can be linked to gout. I found this a while ago during my Gutload research to avoid high oxalate vegetables in my crickets diet.
Thank you for that, the vet did say the gutloading may have to be changed, he will confirm that next Friday. What do you personally use for gutloading? They told me there is a commercial made gutload that is better, did not mention what it is though. Btw I see him drink atleast 2 times a week with distilled water from a little dripper. Im pretty sure he stays hydrated. But apparently not I guess
 

Shanar808

Avid Member
Thank you for that, the vet did say the gutloading may have to be changed, he will confirm that next Friday. What do you personally use for gutloading? They told me there is a commercial made gutload that is better, did not mention what it is though. Btw I see him drink atleast 2 times a week with distilled water from a little dripper. Im pretty sure he stays hydrated. But apparently not I guess
Personally I use Repashy products for that (bug burger is good for over 3 days before feeding/ and superload for the few days just prior to feeding to chameleon) along with kale, watercress and a little bit of carrot, a couple small nori flakes, and bee pollen. Honestly, the more you see drinking the more of a concern dehydration will be. I fog my chameleon for 8-10 hours every night. She’s got great urates and never drinks. I don’t need a dripper and my mist is only enough to coat everything (1 min).
 

Dgood

Established Member
He was in a 4 solid sided enclosure with a screen top, I usually have to run my fogger most of the time to keep humidity up. And the mist king system mists quite a bit. Hydrometer measures good levels all the time. And I just replaced it a few weeks ago. Its just always so dry in Colorado, im sure other people struggle with it too. Ill try and step it up a couple notches to get more hyrdation/humidity for him.
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
He was in a 4 solid sided enclosure with a screen top, I usually have to run my fogger most of the time to keep humidity up. And the mist king system mists quite a bit. Hydrometer measures good levels all the time. And I just replaced it a few weeks ago. Its just always so dry in Colorado, im sure other people struggle with it too. Ill try and step it up a couple notches to get more hyrdation/humidity for him.
It’s only recommended to run your fogged at night and never when the lights are on.
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
I am familiar with gout as I suffer from it myself and when it flares up it is very painful and makes walking almost impossible.
I take medication to keep uric acid levels in check but not sure if they have a medication for chams that would do the same.
Good to hear he is healthy otherwise and best to you both.😎

In the passed my vet used Adequan for my chameleons with extreme arthritis. I wonder if that would also help with gout?
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
Im late to the party. But leg grabbing/biting is neurological. Its typically caused by a bad calcium/phosphorous ratio. If the ratio is off, the muscles wont contract right, or will be painful. Ive only seen this a few times. In the elderly lizards it was due to hindered calcium absorption. For some reason the standard D3/lighting became not as effective as they got older. Switching to "a little" D3 each dusting fixed the problem in both cases. So each reptile got 1 bonus cricket each feeding that had the D3 dusting.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
@nightanole said... " In the elderly lizards it was due to hindered calcium absorption. For some reason the standard D3/lighting became not as effective as they got older. Switching to "a little" D3 each dusting fixed the problem in both cases. So each reptile got 1 bonus cricket each feeding that had the D3 dusting."

Just like I said in my previous post..."Your supplements look good. From what I've learned, seen, read, older chameleons seem to be prone to not getting enough calcium into the bones and muscles and do things like this. I have no studies to prove it...it's just seems to be logical to me. I'm not a vet either BTW". Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that!
 

Dgood

Established Member
In the passed my vet used Adequan for my chameleons with extreme arthritis. I wonder if that would also help with gout?
There would be no way I could keep the humidity up with out it. Unless I mist about every half hour or so, but then the cage would never get to dry out.. Like I said I struggle with the humidity in Colorado. At this point from what everyone is saying maybe I should go with a glass enclosure, but finding one to suit his size my be hard.
 

Dgood

Established Member
Im late to the party. But leg grabbing/biting is neurological. Its typically caused by a bad calcium/phosphorous ratio. If the ratio is off, the muscles wont contract right, or will be painful. Ive only seen this a few times. In the elderly lizards it was due to hindered calcium absorption. For some reason the standard D3/lighting became not as effective as they got older. Switching to "a little" D3 each dusting fixed the problem in both cases. So each reptile got 1 bonus cricket each feeding that had the D3 dusting.
The vet said his calcium/phosphorus ratio was good. Ill ask them about the d3, I've never heard of d3 every feeding.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
There would be no way I could keep the humidity up with out it. Unless I mist about every half hour or so, but then the cage would never get to dry out.. Like I said I struggle with the humidity in Colorado. At this point from what everyone is saying maybe I should go with a glass enclosure, but finding one to suit his size my be hard.
How long do you mist for each time, and how many live plants do you have?
 

Dgood

Established Member
How long do you mist for each time, and how many live plants do you have?
Usually about 2 minutes misting sessions about every hour and a half to 2 hours. I have a total of 5 live plants through out the cage. As of yesterday he is in a temp. Cage with no live plants but same misting schedule. Humidity gauge never drops below 40ish percent, with the misting and fogger, with out the fogger humidity gets down to 25-30%. Should I be misting more often and ditch the fogger?
 

Dgood

Established Member
How long do you mist for each time, and how many live plants do you have?
Usually about 2 minutes misting sessions about every hour and a half to 2 hours. I have a total of 5 live plants through out the cage. As of yesterday he is in a temp. Cage with no live plants but same misting schedule. Humidity gauge never drops below 40ish percent, with the misting and fogger, with out the fogger humidity gets down to 25-30%. Should I be misting more often and ditch the fogger?
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Usually about 2 minutes misting sessions about every hour and a half to 2 hours. I have a total of 5 live plants through out the cage. As of yesterday he is in a temp. Cage with no live plants but same misting schedule. Humidity gauge never drops below 40ish percent, with the misting and fogger, with out the fogger humidity gets down to 25-30%. Should I be misting more often and ditch the fogger?
Definitely fogger only at night, increase in how long each misting session goes for (like 5 minutes or longer if needed), don’t increase the amount of misting sessions you do, and add tons more live plants to help raise and stabilize the humidity
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Any chameleons I've seen/heard/read about with gout hang their legs off the branches....they don't grasp their own legs with their feet. Can anyone show me an article etc that talks about chameleons grabbing their own legs that had gout?
With calcium imbalances, the muscles and bones weaken in such a way that the chameleon can't control where the leg is going and they end up grasping their own legs.
 
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