Baby Veiled-Open and Closing Mouth

[Likbor]

Hi! I have a few questions, if they've already been answered or if I've put them in the wrong place could someone please redirect me? I'm new here! Thanks so much

Cage Info:
Cage Set up here:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/spartagus/2009/november/314.jpg...since then we've switched to paper towel as a cover for the bottom
Cage Type - 38 Screen Flextarium ( 16.5" x 16.5" x 30")
Lighting - UVB and Basking, two separate bulbs.
Temperature - Don't have exact temperatures, but he has three zones-directly under his basking, a little further away, and another further away that he sleeps in every night.
Humidity - How would I measure that? We mist his cage for humidity.
Location - NS, Canada.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, most likely male(we can't handle him yet, he's still settling in, but when we first got him we thought we saw spurs), about 4 weeks old, but I'm unsure. I've had him for 2 1/2 weeks. I might be VERY wrong about the age, he might be older, but I think he was born mid/end of Sept.
Handling - None, yet. He's too little and new, I don't want to stress him before he's old enough to cope with it.
Feeding - Trying to keep a steady supply in his cage, he eats about 5-9 3 week old crickets a day (The size of the crickets vary, out pet-stores are very unreliable in regards to the cricket sizes available...some times we have to get smaller ones and feed him more, a lot of the times the buckets have "mixed" crickets by accident). Because of work he gets some in the morning and a few more at night. Offering him fresh greens, sometimes he eats them, sometimes he ignores them.
Supplements - Calcium +D3 on the crickets
Watering - he has a waterfall and the cage gets misted a few times daily. I have a feeling it's not being done enough/long enough. He drinks from his waterfall.


Current Problem
1)In the past few days I've noticed him gaping his mouth open and closed when he's in his basking spot. After doing some googling the best I could come up with was dehydration--and that the cage wasn't being sprayed for long enough. Last night I gave it a good soaking, and even sprayed him gently for the first time. I don't think he was object to being sprayed himself, although he didn't look too pleased...but he didn't hiss. This morning the cage was sprayed for 45 seconds, gently started spraying the leaves and branches and then worked my way up to gently spraying him. He hissed at first (inaudibly, but opened his mouth like a hiss) and looked very ticked, so I moved the stream of mist to the left of him and he moved right into it...I kept spraying, but I'm still unsure--is it OK to mist him directly? Is there a way to help him learn to like being misted? He kept opening and closing his mouth after the first spray, but with a bit of his tongue visible this time
Should I invest in a fogger?
Our new plan is to spray for a full in the morning(anywhere between 7-10, depending on mine and my girlfriend's schedules and how quick he eats his breakfast so the crickets don't drown...made that mistake once!), in the late afternoon(again, schedule depending-between 3 and 5) and once in the mid/late evening (8-10).

2) Up until the last few days every morning he's gone down to the bottom of his enclosure as soon as his breakfast is put in and he's made quick work of it. The last 3 or 4 days he's been waiting to eat, he hasn't seemed as hungry...but he's still eating, just not really when I'm in the room. Is he being fed to much and now he's slowing down? We did have to get very tiny crickets this time, could their size have anything to do with it?

3)When do they first start shedding (out of curiosity)?

4)How old should he be before handling? I know not to handle him a lot, but I need to be able to pick him up enough to do a health check, at least. I planned on waiting until he's at least 2 1/2 months, but is that too young?

For reference
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/spartagus/2009/november/249.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/spartagus/2009/november/276.jpg

 

[renzo0684]

Ditch the coil UVB bulb and get a repti-sun 5.0 fluorescent bulb.

Ditch the waterfall also there is no need for it chams drink from the plants when you mist. You should mist like 3-5 times a day for 5 mnutes each time

How hot is it in your cage?

You can buy a humidity reader almost anywhere it should be 45%-50% more when misting obveously.

Open mouth with no noise is like a dog panting you cham is to hot.

Dusting the crickets goes like this. 5-6 times a week with calcium no d3, twice a month with d3, and twice a month with a multivitamin.

Your cham should shed once a month while he is a youngster then it will go to every other month once he is bigger and slow down from there.

Handling is ok now and then I only hold Jasper (3 month veiled) to clean his cage. You will get mixed emotions on here for holding your cham.

 

[alhickabee]

As has been said ditch the waterfall and coil UVB. Setup a dripper if you're worried about misting not being enough.

You NEED a way to accurately measure the temps and humidity. Walmart sells an Accurite digital gauge that has all you need (temp @ probe, temp @ base and humidity) for ~$13. He's most likely gaping because his basking spot is too hot. Young chams do not thermoregulate as well as adults. Try moving the lamp away from the cage or switch to a lower wattage to achieve your target temp which should be fairly low (mid-low 80s). This really is something that should have been setup and dialed in before you got the cham.

Renzo's supplement schedule is perfect for his age, but when he is about 6 months you'll want to cut the D3 and vitamin down to once a month and the calcium down to about 3 times a week.

GL

 

[renzo0684]

As has been said ditch the waterfall and coil UVB. Setup a dripper if you're worried about misting not being enough.

You NEED a way to accurately measure the temps and humidity. Walmart sells an Accurite digital gauge that has all you need (temp @ probe, temp @ base and humidity) for ~$13. He's most likely gaping because his basking spot is too hot. Young chams do not thermoregulate as well as adults. Try moving the lamp away from the cage or switch to a lower wattage to achieve your target temp which should be fairly low (mid-low 80s). This really is something that should have been setup and dialed in before you got the cham.

Renzo's supplement schedule is perfect for his age, but when he is about 6 months you'll want to cut the D3 and vitamin down to once a month and the calcium down to about 3 times a week.

GL

I did not know that the dusting changed the older the cham gets. Thats good to know!

 

[Likbor]

Thanks for the replies! We've picked up the multi-vitamins and plain calcium, as well as a humidity reader, so that should help. About what should it read? We've also been spraying him a lot more, he seems to be getting used to it.
This afternoon he broke out in a massive shed!! Would that explain any of the behavior or grumpiness? Should it happen really quickly? I noticed about 10 minutes ago that it was starting, 3 minutes later it is in FULL swing!!

What's wrong with the UVB coil?

 

[renzo0684]

The uvb coil is really bad for the eyes and can cause burns. This is what happened to my chame because of a coil bulb https://www.chameleonforums.com/picture-jaspers-side-sore-31298/

 

[pssh]

Not all coil bulbs are bad, but certain ones are. You'd have to tell us the brand and the year it was made to be sure. However, linear tube uvb lights tend to be best, with the reptisun 5.0 being the best for chameleons. Waterfalls are bad because Chameleons can drownin them and when they tend to deficate in the water and drink that same water. You'd have to clean it with bleach every few hours to keep it clean enough for your chameleon to drink from.

Just spray him for a minute or two 2-5 times a day. The humidity should be around 40-50 % when the cage is dry, 70-90% when misting, and hand around 60-70% for an hour or two after misting.

He should have live plants like hibiscus and pothos and ficus plants in his cage to bring up humidity. They also provide cover and veiled chameleons will eat plants and will try to eat the fake foliage and can choke on it. So live plants are just better all around.

If I were you, I'd try cup feeding so that he always knows where food is. Plus you can monitor feeding and it ensures that chameleon wont get chewed on by the bugs while it sleeps. Otherwise you need to take all the bugs out at night. The crickets and other bugs that you should be feeding him should be gutloaded with veggies like kale, collard greens, and carrots and fruits like blueberries, pears, and apples.

You can also try handfeeding so that the chameleon will see you as a source of food and perhaps tolerate handling for a short while so you can give him a once over and do your monthly cleaning.

You can definately hold him, though I suggest not holding him excessivley or too often. I only hold mine when I need to for monthly cleaning (the main time when I check him over) or a quick picture for the forums

 

[Likbor]

The UVB we have is the repti-glow 13 w 5.0 coil...we've looked at every single pet store in town, and couldn't find a non-coil UVB that would work for out setup, and while eventually it might be an option, right now our "pet fund" is maxed to the brim from setting up the enclosure, Close to $100 to buy the fixture and then the $30-50 to buy the bulb just isn't feasible right now. We haven't been to the only private (ie not chain) store that deals with reptiles because I really don't like the place (last time I was there they had a turtle developing shell rot in 4 inches of water and no basking platform) but we'll hit them up sometime, the guy seemed to know about Chams when we talked to him at an expo.

He won't eat from out hands, at all-we've tried holding crickets (squirming around) in our hands, between our fingers, in long tweezers, and even in tweezers made from a chopstick, nothing works! I'm tempted to just pick him up, but don't really want to stress him out-but we so far are cleaning his cage with him in there and he doesn't seem to mind, but we have more coverage we want to add and that can't be done with him in there. I have a feeling he's going to be an aggressive guy. We could not find a breeder that didn't include shipping him by plane, so ended up getting him from a store...he was easy to pick up in the store but I think now he's loathe to leave his home, which I guess is a good sign, just a bit frustrating trying to negotiate between giving him his space and keeping his cage properly maintained...I might have to invest in gloves just as a safeguard.

We bought a hydro-reader and taped both it and the thermometer inside the cage, as before we were having problems with it staying and not falling, so hopefully that should help...the hydro reader doesn't work great but it's all we could afford for now. Getting a specific plant could be tricky this time of year, most plant stores around here are either hardware stores who have packed it up for the year or plant stores who have moved on to Christmas. Hopefully we can find something. He hasn't tried to eat his leaves yet, and they support his weight when he climbs around.



Thanks for all the advice guys!!! It is very appreciated!

 

[Julirs]

I hate to say it, but yet another case of not having money to support the animal. What happens if you need to see a Vet? You could have set up the proper lighting for less than $30.00. I am also hoping you do not have one of those dial style analog thermometers-they do a bad job of reading basking temps and your basking temps could be much higher than you are aware of.

 

[Likbor]

Please note the words "right now". As in less than one month of getting him; setting up his cage(which took a few weeks of collecting supplies); and with the holidays next month. If it's dangerous, we'll fix it asap. It it's just a preference thing, well, everyone has their own preferences. This is the first we've heard of a UVB coil being bad; I've used them for years with another critter with no problem, and read nowhere to stay away from coils while doing the Cham research. If we had known this before, we would have originally setup differently. We cannot find a non-coil UVB light that doesn't require another special fixture, so our next step it looking elsewhere. If we can't find one, then we'll do what has to be done and get the $$ one. The phase "not all coil bulbs are bad" prompted me to post the brand of ours, as it might be one of the ok ones. And then spending the extra money wouldn't be necessary. If it were a vet visit, a way would be found--no matter what. Just because you don't have a seemingly unlimited disposable income doesn't mean you can't own pets, we understand the expense of owning him and have, thus far, dedicated most of our free time and income to perfecting his environment and will continue to do so.
Anyway, thanks for the input.

 

[kinyonga]

Most stores like Walmart carry an 18" fixture for fluorescent bulbs for about $15.00 and 4' fixtures can be purchased at places like Canadian Tire and Home Depot for under $30.00.

 

[boneseast]

picking up a tube setup isn't too costly. I got an 18" fixture for $7 and the bulb itself are ~20 around here.

 

[pssh]

You need to know the year the bulb was made. Most coiled bulbs can cause blindness and burns though. You should be able to find a reptisun 5.0 online and a fixture for ten bucks or less at a walmart.

 

[Likbor]

would this do? We've been unable to find Reptisun products around here, only repti-glo , so I think that's where the lines are getting crossed...the only UVB non-coil we could find was about a foot long and therefore needed a special unit.




http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=49&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=20&SearchContext=YTo3OntzOjg6IlNlYXJjaElEIjtzOjI6IjIwIjtzOjEwOiJEYXRhYmFzZUlEIjtzOjE6IjIiO3M6NzoiS2V5d29yZCI7czoyMDoiTGlnaHRpbmcgQWNjZXNzb3JpZXMiO3M6MTU6IlByb2R1Y3RDYXRlZ29yeSI7czo4OiJMaWdodGluZyI7czo3OiJIZWFkaW5nIjtzOjk6IlRlcnJhcml1bSI7czo4OiJTZWFyY2hfeCI7czoxOiIwIjtzOjg6IlNlYXJjaF95IjtzOjE6IjAiO30


thanks for the help.