B. pumilium loss

Turningdoc

New Member
Found my gravid B. pumilium from my pair in bottom of cage this am. No signs trauma. No obvious deformities. Seemed to be very well yesterday. Was feeding well on Hydei w heavy calcium dusting and 1/8" Gutloaded crix under light your reptiles forest UV w 45w halogen basking bulb. Also out in sun 2-4 hrs 2-4 times a week here in FL. No other ideas. Male still healthy. :-(
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
Necropsy! It would be SO vauable for those of us who have/had these Brady imports to really know why individuals died, and not just speculate. You never know what may or may not make the difference to other keepers.

I am very sorry to hear this, that's the worst. Many of us with these chameleons have been where you are, with a perfectly healthy animal one day and a dead one the next. Hopefully you can find answers.
 

Turningdoc

New Member
Necropsy normal. Flies in stomach. Organs looked normal. (I am a human surgeon by trade). To me this leans to electrolyte imbalance or poisoning via invasive bug in enclosure, bacterial or viral source. Will never know. With such small animals could be almost anything. My B. transvaals still look exceptional and I think gravid as well. Will keep praying!
 

pssh

Avid Member
Im sorry to hear that you lost her. Did you have a vet do it? Maybe they can take samples and have everything tested to see if there were any non-obvious causes.
 
Did you gutload the Hydei? I think it's best to remove them from the deli cup where they hatched to a clean cup with fresh media or food.
 

Turningdoc

New Member
I breed Hydei in standard fashion 16 oz cups and excelsior w Repashy superfly as media. Dart froggers have proven you can't truly gutload flies so I dust as well.
 

coldbloodedAL

Avid Member
I breed Hydei in standard fashion 16 oz cups and excelsior w Repashy superfly as media. Dart froggers have proven you can't truly gutload flies so I dust as well.
So you're saying FF have ZERO nutritional value alone, without supplements?
 
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Turningdoc

New Member
That is in fact NOT what I said. I simply said gutloading in fruit flies is ineffective. Please see this landmark article I recommend to all for precise info on all feeders.

http://www.nagonline.net/Technical Papers/NAGFS00397Insects-JONIFEB24,2002MODIFIED.pdf

Note fruit flies are very high in protein, but lacking in all minerals, especially calcium. Given their small size, gutloading alone cannot overcome that deficiency w/o dusting.

Should you desire a review of a debate that occurred over about 5 yrs use search fxn on Dendroboard. As dart frogs live in captivity on mostly fruit flies alone, this debate included vets, biologists, chemists, zoologists and a few BSers too!
 

coldbloodedAL

Avid Member
Okay, I did not mean for that to come off as it did.. It was more of a simple question as I didnt really know the answer to the question...

But thank you for that info!

Honestly, I don't supplement but one time weekly using Repashy Cal+. And an additional 1-2 times weekly for the young, and gravid female.

All feed on hydei, bean beatles, 1/8-1/4" crickets, HF/bbf, baby hormworms, supers, and a few of mine are finally starting to take tiny dubia.
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
Hi, I dont think anyone is stating that gut loading alone will get you by. I think the main point is that minerals/vitamins degrade and on top of that. The mixture of these media's fermenting causing new elements to be ingested. With cultures typically producing for 3-6 weeks. The optimal way to gut load these tiny insects would to allow them time with a fresh source 4 hours before feeding off. Do i think it is personally needed, no. Would it be best, yes.

I do agree though. In any instance, indoor captivity we rely heavily on a good supplementation routine. The insects, gut loads widely offered is not enough on its own.
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
Sorry i forgot to ask some questions. Even though i have no experience with these.

Were they kept together? If so, Did this one bask much?
Are you using as a substrate? If so, did you examine/open the digestive tract for blockage?
How often do you clean out the floor of the cage?
Urates?
 

Turningdoc

New Member
Sorry i forgot to ask some questions. Even though i have no experience with these.<br />
<br />
Were they kept together? If so, Did this one bask much?<br />
Are you using as a substrate? If so, did you examine/open the digestive tract for blockage?<br />
How often do you clean out the floor of the cage?<br />
Urates?


Kept in pairs as many EU keepers do
All bask most of day
No substrate, bare bottom w vines, branches, Pothos, and Tillandsias
No signs bowel obstruction
Cages cleaned weekly
Urates white
Now you can see my frustration!
 

coldbloodedAL

Avid Member
Sorry i forgot to ask some questions. Even though i have no experience with these.<br />
<br />
Were they kept together? If so, Did this one bask much?<br />
Are you using as a substrate? If so, did you examine/open the digestive tract for blockage?<br />
How often do you clean out the floor of the cage?<br />
Urates?


Kept in pairs as many EU keepers do
All bask most of day
No substrate, bare bottom w vines, branches, Pothos, and Tillandsias
No signs bowel obstruction
Cages cleaned weekly
Urates white
Now you can see my frustration!
Regardless of what many keepers say, it is best to keep them separate aside from copulation. Males are often sexually mature much earlier than females within the three species we are working with. Especially with transvaalense.
 
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