at what age should xanth chams start geting there crickets dusted with calcium plus?

[alex arango]

so i have a clutch of 9 baby xanths that are 20 days old. at what age should i start giving them calcium? i use calcium plus for all my other chams and would rather use calcium plus for the babies so i wont have to go and buy differant calcium for them. also i let the crickets loose in there cage so how would i dust them if i should give them calcium? maybe put like half of the crickets in a glass tupperware and lightly dust them all once a week? thats how much i was told to dust the crickets for my adult xanths, one feeding of dusted creckets a week and the rest of the week with no cal +.

 

[stltheurge]

This is exactly what KAMMERFLAGE KREATIONS sent me:

Herptivite (multivitamin with beta-carotene) - Mondays and Thursdays
Rep-Cal Calcium (calcium with and w/out vitamin D3 - depending on indoor or outdoor use) - Tuesdays and Fridays
Miner-All (calcium with essential trace minerals) - Wednesdays and Saturdays
*
Our adult males are supplemented with vitamins and calcium one time each per week.

They consider adults to be over a year old.

 

[stltheurge]

Here is some other info from the breeder on feeding:

Babies: *Baby chameleons should be fed 6-7 days a week. *From the age of 0-4 months, we feed our offspring liberally. *Babies will often eat 8-12 crickets a day when the crickets are 7-14 days old (small 1/8 - 1/4" size). *In addition to crickets, two of their favorite foods at this stage of life are flightless fruit flies and domestic houseflies. *
Juveniles: Once the offspring reach 5-12 months of age (juvenile, young adult size), we slow down their food intake and begin to grow them at a slower pace. By now they are on a 3-4 week cricket (1/2 - 3/4" size) and we allow 5-6 crickets per feeding as opposed to the 8-12 they were receiving as small babies. The very real risk of overfeeding during this life stage is a high potential for MBD (metabolic bone disease) by misjudging the calcium ratios to food intake. *It's too difficult to manage proper supplementation when offering large volumes of food. *By growing your chameleon slowly and steadily through this period of their life, you are much more likely to provide them with strong, dense bones as opposed to weak, brittle bones from accelerated growth rates the chameleons can't keep up with.
*
Adult Males: *From 13-18 months, we feed our adult males on an "every other day" basis. *When we feed crickets, they are given approx. 10 per feeding. *At this stage of life, they are no longer experiencing rapid growth and don't require food on a daily basis. *
*
Adult Females: *For mature and actively breeding females, we maintain a daily feeding schedule due to the high demands associated with during egg production. *For non-breeding females, we feed on an every other day basis just as we do with the males

 

[stltheurge]

Hope this helps.

 

[alex arango]

Here is some other info from the breeder on feeding:

Babies: *Baby chameleons should be fed 6-7 days a week. *From the age of 0-4 months, we feed our offspring liberally. *Babies will often eat 8-12 crickets a day when the crickets are 7-14 days old (small 1/8 - 1/4" size). *In addition to crickets, two of their favorite foods at this stage of life are flightless fruit flies and domestic houseflies. *
Juveniles: Once the offspring reach 5-12 months of age (juvenile, young adult size), we slow down their food intake and begin to grow them at a slower pace. By now they are on a 3-4 week cricket (1/2 - 3/4" size) and we allow 5-6 crickets per feeding as opposed to the 8-12 they were receiving as small babies. The very real risk of overfeeding during this life stage is a high potential for MBD (metabolic bone disease) by misjudging the calcium ratios to food intake. *It's too difficult to manage proper supplementation when offering large volumes of food. *By growing your chameleon slowly and steadily through this period of their life, you are much more likely to provide them with strong, dense bones as opposed to weak, brittle bones from accelerated growth rates the chameleons can't keep up with.
*
Adult Males: *From 13-18 months, we feed our adult males on an "every other day" basis. *When we feed crickets, they are given approx. 10 per feeding. *At this stage of life, they are no longer experiencing rapid growth and don't require food on a daily basis. *
*
Adult Females: *For mature and actively breeding females, we maintain a daily feeding schedule due to the high demands associated with during egg production. *For non-breeding females, we feed on an every other day basis just as we do with the males

thats some great info thanks! i was feeding my adult male and adult female about 10-15 crickets a day. i got to do some adjustments to there feeding time n amount of crickets.

 

[xanthoman]

personally i would wait till about 6 weeks to offer any multivites. i think calcium plus is probably the best full house multivite to use since it is about the weakest of the all in ones. imo, at 6 weeks i would make a 1x offer of 1 matchead of calcium plus for about 50 feeders (1/8-1/4" cricks or newly hatched bbfs) for all 9 chams, and then do it again in about a month.
after that you should be able to start a reasonable weekly regimen of about a matchead of cp for every dozen (every 5 feeders after adolescents) feeders every wk-10 days. in the meantime a single matchhead of calwithd3 1x for about 50 feeders should be plenty to get them there. and a tiny pinch of weekly plain cal.
as they pass through adolescents (and after) a couple of food free days a week is a good thing.
the great thing about calcium plus is it already has A : D3 in a 10:1 ratio so that takes out most of the guess work. imo adding significant amounts of other vites or even vitamin rich foods will only mess things up.
of course if you were to use a different supp, my recommendation might be different altogether. and this is all based on the assumption that they are all currently otherwise healthy.
thats not to say that there arent other combos that will work, but for cp, thats what i would suggest. jmo.

 

[alex arango]

personally i would wait till about 6 weeks to offer any multivites. i think calcium plus is probably the best full house multivite to use since it is about the weakest of the all in ones. imo, at 6 weeks i would make a 1x offer of 1 matchead of calcium plus for about 50 feeders (1/8-1/4" cricks or newly hatched bbfs) for all 9 chams, and then do it again in about a month.
after that you should be able to start a reasonable weekly regimen of about a matchead of cp for every dozen (every 5 feeders after adolescents) feeders every wk-10 days. in the meantime a single matchhead of calwithd3 1x for about 50 feeders should be plenty to get them there. and a tiny pinch of weekly plain cal.
as they pass through adolescents (and after) a couple of food free days a week is a good thing.
the great thing about calcium plus is it already has A3 in a 10:1 ratio so that takes out most of the guess work. imo adding significant amounts of other vites or even vitamin rich foods will only mess things up.
of course if you were to use a different supp, my recommendation might be different altogether. and this is all based on the assumption that they are all currently otherwise healthy.
thats not to say that there arent other combos that will work, but for cp, thats what i would suggest. jmo.

ok so correct me if im wrong, at 6 weeks old give them a matchead of calcium plus for about 50 feeders once a month and after a while start giving them a matchhead of calcium plus every dozen of crickets? i dont get what you mean by every 5 feeders after adolescents. so would it be fine if i let loose 12 crickets in there cage with out calcium plus and put 12 crickets with a matchhead of calcium plus in a glass tupperwear every time i refile there cage with pinhead crickets?

 

[alex arango]

Adult Females: *For mature and actively breeding females, we maintain a daily feeding schedule due to the high demands associated with during egg production. *For non-breeding females, we feed on an every other day basis just as we do with the males

10 crickets every feeding also like the male?

 

[Olimpia]

Listen to Xanthoman's information, Jackson's are NOTHING like panthers and veileds in their care. Supplement information will be very different, as you can see from the information he gave you. Jackson's are way more sensitive to supplements and putting them on the same regimen as a panther may kill them, certainly in the long run.

Also, Jackson's are a live-bearing species. So any information that pertains to helping them lay eggs is incorrect, they will not dig and lay a clutch of eggs like panthers. Again, ask Xanthoman any specific questions you have, he is the boss when it comes to these guys!

Best of luck with your babies!

 

[Action Jackson]

I agree with Xanthoman on lightly supplimenting Jackson's. I have always lightly supplimented my Jackson's with very good results. With so any people getting and keeping Jackson's it's important to get this info out there.

I also thinks allowing your Jackson's get some natural sunlight is very important.

Good luck with your babies.

 

[xanthoman]

ok so correct me if im wrong, at 6 weeks old give them a matchead of calcium plus for about 50 feeders once a month and after a while start giving them a matchhead of calcium plus every dozen of crickets? i dont get what you mean by every 5 feeders after adolescents. so would it be fine if i let loose 12 crickets in there cage with out calcium plus and put 12 crickets with a matchhead of calcium plus in a glass tupperwear every time i refile there cage with pinhead crickets?

ive lost otherwise healthy neonates due to supping too much or too early, and i know lots of others have too. remember these recommendations are based on the following;
9 neonates in presumably healthy condition.
no other vitamin enhanced products or foods are being offered.
calcium plus is a full house multivite containing A : D3 in a 10:1 ratio. as far as i know it is the weakest of the full house vites which is why it is the only preformed A product that i usually recommend.

just to clarify, this is my specific recommendation that tries to error on the safe side.

1. based on 9 neonates, 50 appropriately sized feeders is a # that is likely to get readily consumed by 9 healthy and actively feeding neonates.

2. 1x every week, offer 50 feeders dusted with 1 matchead head of plain cal. (ie; a one day feeding of 50 feeders dusted with plain cal only, do this 1 day each week, dont offer other undusted feeders until all 50 have been consumed, otherwise all dusted feeders may not be consumed and you wont know how to figure their calcium intake.)

3. after 2-3 weeks of age, ok to add an additional one time only dusting of regular cal with d3. this is just to get them a little d3 to carry them to the 6 week mark. you dont want to give too much d3 because that will upset the vitaminA : D3 ratio already figured in to the calcium plus that you will soon be offering, so again this is a 1 time only dusting/ offering of regular calwith D3, at the same rate of 1 matchead for 50 feeders. this is in addition to the weekly matchead of plain cal.

4. at age 6 weeks, assuming that all animals appear healthy, and are actively feeding, then it should be safe to offer a 1x feeding of 50 feeders, for all 9 animals, dusted with 1 matchhead of calcium plus, for all 50 feeders. their young bodies have never been exposed to preformed vites before, so this is like a test supp to see how well they handle it. at this feeding, cal plus should be the only thing offered. remember the d3 was a one time affair and is no longer needed once cal plus has been started because cal plus already contains d3. wait 1 mth to offer any more calcium plus.
5. at age 10 weeks, offer another single feeding of 50 cal plus dusted feeders for all 9 animals. always better to use too small of feeders than too large, but by 10 weeks your animals should be well past the point of 1/4" cricks, 3/8" dubia and be easily able to consume full size house flies or freshly hatch bbfs.
6. by 12 weeks you should have started separating your animals, so this mean an adjustment in tactics and dosages, seeing as how we are no longer talking about all 9 animals as a communal whole, and the animals are now onto larger feeders. its more appropriate to start ramping them up to a full supp plan in preparation for adolescence and figuring supp ratios on a per animal basis.
so, at 12 weeks figure 1 matchead of calcium plus for 12 small to medium sized feeders or 1 matchead for 5-6 larger feeders for each animal. the formula may vary a bit according to the health/appetite of the animals and the size of the feeders offered, but the basic idea is now to see that each animal gets one matchead of cal plus every week-10- days depending, regardless of the size or qty of feeders offered. 12 small to med sized feeders was mentioned because that is an appropriate amount for one days feeding of small to med feeders at 12 weeks. just to be clear each animal is now consuming 1 matchead of cal plus every week-10 days. hopefully by this time there are other feeders in the mix like bbfs, silks, and smaller supers, and NO WAXWORMS. this is the maintenence dosage i recommend throughout their adolescence.
by 6 mths the animals should now be well comfortable with significantly larger feeders, so its appropriate to figure your offerings based on feeders size, but you still want to maintain the single matchead of cal plus per animal every week to 10 days. remember, cal plus contains a full spectrum of vites in the proper balance, so imo, adding other vites will only screw that up. once the calcium plus regimen is started the only other supps offered should be the weekly matchead of plain cal per animal and the week to 10 days matchead of calcium plus per animal. imo your gutload should be comprised of cham healthy foods with no other added vites. it should be noted that most commercial gutloads contain added vites and in many cases should be considered a full house multivite themselves. so in order to avoid screwing up your ratios your gutload should be cham healthy foods only with no added vites. imo, this is where a lot of people get into trouble, they are already offering a full house multivite, and adding vitamin enhanced foods to their gutload which is like giving 2 different full house multivites, imo mixing full house multivites is rarely a good idea. so this is why i recommend not adding vites to your gut load.

xanths need very little supps to get by, so imo, as long as they are getting any full house vites, the chance of getting too little is minimal.
if that turms out to be the case you can always add more. generally speaking its usually less harmful and easier to correct too little vites than too much. problems from oversupping are much harder to correct, and much more likely to have caused permanent damage.

im sure there are lots of other regimens that work fine, but imo i can only speak on the ones i have had exp with, and imo the key to success with any of them is not to offer too many vites.

just for the record i try not to ever offer more feeders than will be readily consumed, and allowing feeders to free roam for extended periods is not good for a variety of reasons. also when cup feeding, there should only be feeders in the dish, any significant loose qty of un-adhered supp powder in the feeding dish should be discarded. if your feeders look like ghosts, then imo you are probably over supping.

also, imo, cricks are a poor feeder and feeding too many can cause issues, so i reserve them mostly for supp purposes and try to use other feeders the rest of the time. imo feeding mostly cricks especially as neonates and through adolescence is setting the stage for hyperphosphatemia at minimum. imo getting away from cricks as a staple feeder is just as important as other supping issues.

and remember this is only a guideline, based on what i know of your husbandry. if i knew full details of your husbandry my recommendation might be different.
hopefully this helped to clear things up. jmo