Are 4 T5HO bulbs overkill?

[jshaffer740]

Hi everyone,

When I move Abe to his adult 2x2x4 enclosure, I will need to upgrade his lighting fixtures as well. I know I will be moving to T5HO lighting, as I have had great success with it with my planted aquariums, and I believe the plants in Abe's enclosure would love it as well.

I'm currently leaning towards some of the higher-end quad T5HO fixtures that allow independent functioning of the various banks of bulbs, so that I can create more of a cycle of lighting, in which it comes up gradually, peaks during the day and reduces again towards the end of the day.

My question comes down to this: would this be too much light for my cham? I know they get a lot of sun in their natural environment, but the nature of the sun vs. artificial lighting 6 inches from them is a bit different. I plan to have one Arcadia 12% T5HO, two 6500k T5HO, and one 650nm (Rosette) bulb for the plants (this bulb has a pinkish hue that is supposedly a good wavelength for the plants - it is not all that bright to the human eye). The fixture would also include blue LEDs which would be used for about 15-30 minutes at the very beginning and ends of the light cycle.

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks!

 

[deadhd5]

It seems like a lot to me, but the brightness can be mitigated with a well planted enclosure. I suggest you go with the 6% bulb, which is more than enough for a chameleon.

I have the dual fixture plus a separate "rosette" bulb (T8) on two of my panther cages and it is very bright (6% arcadia + 6500k zoomed). My plants are doing great, and the switch brough my chameleons out of their "winter blues".

 

[jshaffer740]

It seems like a lot to me, but the brightness can be mitigated with a well planted enclosure. I suggest you go with the 6% bulb, which is more than enough for a chameleon.

I have the dual fixture plus a separate "rosette" bulb (T8) on two of my panther cages and it is very bright (6% arcadia + 6500k zoomed). My plants are doing great, and the switch brough my chameleons out of their "winter blues".

Okay. Thanks for the advice on 6%. I couldn't decide, but I'm assuming that due to the increased transmission and consistency of Arcadia T5HO's, 6% is adequate? If that's the case, then 6% it is .

I do currently have, and plan to continue having, a heavily planted enclosure. I feel the chams really do enjoy the security of lots of plants to hide in and climb on. And this is the main reason I was considering this amount of light - because currently much of my enclosure is not well-lit. I think this would help increase the health of my plants, and I do think my cham would have the ability to get in heavy shade towards the bottom of the enclosure if needed.

Also, I would most likely only have the fixture on at "full power" for a couple hours during the middle of the day to simulate high-noon. In the aquarium community we call this the "noon burst" and is usually great for flora and fauna alike.

 

[nightanole]

How do you fit 4 22" bulbs and a basking light across a 2x2 cage?

I dont think it will be too bright (im running 2 HO and one regular in your setup). However you might look into heat problems since you are talking about over 100 watts of florescents in a 2ft area.

Like the others, i would not recommend the 12% unless you have a meter. Even a 6% with a reflector is still cham friendly at 24" away. I wouldnt recomend a 12% unless its a very leafy cage, and the cham cant hang out within a foot of it, and the cham has plenty of hang out places 3ft or farther away from the bulb.

12% is meant for direct basking iguanas and beardies that are 2ft away, and those full sun lizards have 4x the built in sun screen of a cham.

 

[bradley]

I use the 12% on my panthers and veileds. Because of the densely planted enclosures used, the height and the screen the 12% is fine but so is the 6%. Yemens do great under them as they are a good match to their natural environment.

 

[jshaffer740]

How do you fit 4 22" bulbs and a basking light across a 2x2 cage?

I dont think it will be too bright (im running 2 HO and one regular in your setup). However you might look into heat problems since you are talking about over 100 watts of florescents in a 2ft area.

Like the others, i would not recommend the 12% unless you have a meter. Even a 6% with a reflector is still cham friendly at 24" away. I wouldnt recomend a 12% unless its a very leafy cage, and the cham cant hang out within a foot of it, and the cham has plenty of hang out places 3ft or farther away from the bulb.

12% is meant for direct basking iguanas and beardies that are 2ft away, and those full sun lizards have 4x the built in sun screen of a cham.

Well the fixture I'm looking at is about 10" wide (front to back), so that still leaves 14" for the basking light, so I'm thinking I would still be good there. Also, thanks for the clarification on the 6% vs. 12%!

 

[deadhd5]

Okay. Thanks for the advice on 6%. I couldn't decide, but I'm assuming that due to the increased transmission and consistency of Arcadia T5HO's, 6% is adequate? If that's the case, then 6% it is .

Exactly why!

Also, I would most likely only have the fixture on at "full power" for a couple hours during the middle of the day to simulate high-noon. In the aquarium community we call this the "noon burst" and is usually great for flora and fauna alike.

Make sure your fixtures are dimmable. I don't believe the ones I bought from LYR are dimmable. If you get dimmable, this sounds like a great set up for your chameleons! I use a couple timers to attempt to simulate sunset, but what your describing sounds fantastic.

 

[jshaffer740]

Exactly why!



Make sure your fixtures are dimmable. I don't believe the ones I bought from LYR are dimmable. If you get dimmable, this sounds like a great set up for your chameleons! I use a couple timers to attempt to simulate sunset, but what your describing sounds fantastic.

I think what I'm planning is probably very similar to what you're doing as well. Unfortunately I have not seen true dimmable T5HO fixtures for our purposes (they probably exist but are also probably quite expensive!). I'm looking at having a fixture made which will allow each of the four bulbs, and the LEDs, to be controlled independently via the digital timer. So you could have a ramp up bulb-by-bulb to increase the lighting in 5 steps (LED > LED + 1 bulb > 2 bulbs (plus basking) > 3 bulbs (basking) > 4 bulbs (basking)). Unfortunately its not true "dimming", but I think gets to the same place. It should more effectively mimic nature, and would hopefully be better than an abrupt dark-to-full-lights morning, and full-lights-to-dark night.

 

[deadhd5]

I think what I'm planning is probably very similar to what you're doing as well. Unfortunately I have not seen true dimmable T5HO fixtures for our purposes (they probably exist but are also probably quite expensive!). I'm looking at having a fixture made which will allow each of the four bulbs, and the LEDs, to be controlled independently via the digital timer. So you could have a ramp up bulb-by-bulb to increase the lighting in 5 steps (LED > LED + 1 bulb > 2 bulbs (plus basking) > 3 bulbs (basking) > 4 bulbs (basking)). Unfortunately its not true "dimming", but I think gets to the same place. It should more effectively mimic nature, and would hopefully better than an abrupt dark-to-full-lights morning, and full-lights-to-dark night.

Awesome! Please post a thread showing it off when you are done

 

[jshaffer740]

Awesome! Please post a thread showing it off when you are done

Of course! I know how this forum loves pictures

 

[Venutus1]

Some T5 Thoughts, Tips & Tricks & general FYI....

Hi everyone,

When I move Abe to his adult 2x2x4 enclosure, I will need to upgrade his lighting fixtures as well. I know I will be moving to T5HO lighting, as I have had great success with it with my planted aquariums, and I believe the plants in Abe's enclosure would love it as well.

I'm currently leaning towards some of the higher-end quad T5HO fixtures that allow independent functioning of the various banks of bulbs, so that I can create more of a cycle of lighting, in which it comes up gradually, peaks during the day and reduces again towards the end of the day.

My question comes down to this: would this be too much light for my cham? I know they get a lot of sun in their natural environment, but the nature of the sun vs. artificial lighting 6 inches from them is a bit different. I plan to have one Arcadia 12% T5HO, two 6500k T5HO, and one 650nm (Rosette) bulb for the plants (this bulb has a pinkish hue that is supposedly a good wavelength for the plants - it is not all that bright to the human eye). The fixture would also include blue LEDs which would be used for about 15-30 minutes at the very beginning and ends of the light cycle.

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks!

A quad would not over-light a 48" tall enclosure with good plant growth.

And a high end quad fixture with the built in electronics would be very nice.

But you could still get a suitable more natural "day light cycle effect" and end up spending less money, too.

And have some cash for another set up.

If you do a quad with multiple plugs...

you can stop into your local wall mart or hardware store and pick up 3 x 5.99-ish economical light timers.

If you have a quad arrangement like the ones in the pics below ... then you have 3 power cables to work with.

Yea!

So...
Something you could do is hitch one set of 2 bulbs*

(* 2 bulbs being one Arcadia 6% (OR 12% with maybe some shading if plants are sparse** see below) and one 6.5k super daylight )

to one of the timers to go on at say... 7 or 8 AM.

And off at whenever you see fit at night. Say 8 - 10 PM.

Then...

put the other set of lights to go on at around 11 AM and off at around late afternoon.

You know what you just did?

Created a more Natural day light cycle to include "Mid day" sun!


(You could even have one set go off for a half hour in the afternoon when your mister goes ON.
Since it clouds up a bit when it rains in the tropics. )

If you have a separate power cord / power to LED "moon-lites", then you can add a simple timer to that as well.

Folks debate whether these are needed or not.
see: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blue-led-lights-worth-104736/

And they are NOT a necessity.

But ...
Since they come FREE built in some fixtures... like the ones below....then why not use them?

I contend they are handy to create a nice "Twilight" effect.
(without Rob Pattenson and Kristen Stewart LOL. )

I personally think this bit of "Dusk" is important to give the Chams* a bit of time to settle in the foliage at night.

(* or any reptile for that matter.)

After all, the sun does not "snap" off in nature.

Anyway, you can set the LEDs to stay on an hour after all Flo. lighting has gone off for a very nice visual effect.

And if it helps them navigate their way in the dark to their favorite sleeping spot in the umbrella plant ..
or to their favorite roost on a vine...
All the better!

Here are a few pics of one type of quad fixture.. see below.

There are a few out nice options out there.

But be aware,
some quads do not have the options of turning off the LEDs (they just run all the time like on many saltwater models) and they do not have 2 power cords that allow you to use two timers and have a "stepped" light cycle.

Also
BUYER BEWARE

I specifically tested one type of HO t5 fixtures... that once were considered very well made and good... at one time

But I dropped them like a brick in favor of another brand (the new one you see in below pics).

Why?

Because they must have switched ballasts somewhere along the way at the FACTORY when manufacturing new ones. Probably to cheap out and cut cost.

And they drove the bulbs poorly.

SO POORLY that they lowered the UV out-put (and lux / lumen levels) of the UV B HO t5 bulbs to what you get with a t8 bulb.

I am sure there are others too that may not work well at all.. but I haven't tested them all.
Only what I can get my hands on.

So please make sure your HO t5 fixtures have proper ballasts that can drive the bulbs and generate the UV at the correct levels.

And also remember while on the subject of t5:

There are 2 kinds of t5 fixtures (and ballasts) commonly for sale:
NO and HO.

NO = Nominal Out-put. Also sometimes called "HE" for "high efficiency".
HO = High Out-put
You do not want NO.
NO is much WEAKER.

Yep.. NO is also cheaper. So many folks see the term "T5" online and it looks like a great deal.
And so they get "snookered".
When considering the NO (or HE) t5 fixtures... YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST STICK WITH or USE the good 'ol t8.
Since there is no advantage other than the bulbs are just "skinny-er".

For example:
the 46" (48") NO T5 bulbs are ONLY 28 - 30-sh watts.
Versus a HO (High Out-put) T5 bulb that is 54 watts.

So please keep that in mind when grabbing a t5 fixture at Home Depot or ordering what looks like a "good deal" on line.

And NO / Nominal Out-put will NOT drive Arcadia HO t5 bulbs.... or any other HO t5 bulb for that matter.

I don't know how many folks have bought those deep blue HE T5 fixtures only to end up unhappy & realize that they did not get what they expected.

The same goes for folks doing the home depot or lowes thing.
They see the term "t5" and what seems like a good price.
Get it and get it home.... all hooked up over the Chams.....
Only to find out what they thought they were getting a nice bright fixture....
but in reality they just end up with a fixture that can only drive a fairly dim skinny bulb.


Remember, folks can feel free to e-mail me with any t5 questions.
Thats what I am here for.
[email protected]

Cheers!
Todd

OH!
BIG FYI!!
If you get an HO t5 fixture and use Arcadia UVB bulbs in it ---
AND DO NOT REMOVE THE PLASTIC LENS....
you will ultimately RUIN your Chameleon with MBD!!!

Why?
Because the plastic lens does NOT transmit UV B.

**
However, one can be creative and CUT & use only PART of this plastic lens on these type fixtures to create a UV gradient.
Make a LOW UV zone, or allow use of HO t5 Arcadias on shallower (less tall) set ups.
And also this trick is good CUSTOMIZE UV levels using these fixtures to suit baby chams, etc. etc.

Remember, folks can feel free to e-mail me with any t5 questions.
Thats what I am here for.
[email protected]

 

[dlegare]

I think what I'm planning is probably very similar to what you're doing as well. Unfortunately I have not seen true dimmable T5HO fixtures for our purposes (they probably exist but are also probably quite expensive!). I'm looking at having a fixture made which will allow each of the four bulbs, and the LEDs, to be controlled independently via the digital timer. So you could have a ramp up bulb-by-bulb to increase the lighting in 5 steps (LED > LED + 1 bulb > 2 bulbs (plus basking) > 3 bulbs (basking) > 4 bulbs (basking)). Unfortunately its not true "dimming", but I think gets to the same place. It should more effectively mimic nature, and would hopefully be better than an abrupt dark-to-full-lights morning, and full-lights-to-dark night.

I haven't seen any t5 fixtures that are dimable but I was able to upgrade the ballast to one that is. It actually works on the 10v dimming signal from the Herpkeeper controller.

It seems to work pretty good once I got the programming set up. Wiring it was a bit of a pain in the backside.

 

[jshaffer740]

A quad would not over-light a 48" tall enclosure with good plant growth.

And a high end quad fixture with the built in electronics would be very nice.

But you could still get a suitable more natural "day light cycle effect" and end up spending less money, too.

And have some cash for another set up.

If you do a quad with multiple plugs...

you can stop into your local wall mart or hardware store and pick up 3 x 5.99-ish economical light timers.

If you have a quad arrangement like the ones in the pics below ... then you have 3 power cables to work with.

Yea!

So...
Something you could do is hitch one set of 2 bulbs*

(* 2 bulbs being one Arcadia 6% (OR 12% with maybe some shading if plants are sparse** see below) and one 6.5k super daylight )

to one of the timers to go on at say... 7 or 8 AM.

And off at whenever you see fit at night. Say 8 - 10 PM.

Then...

put the other set of lights to go on at around 11 AM and off at around late afternoon.

You know what you just did?

Created a more Natural day light cycle to include "Mid day" sun!


(You could even have one set go off for a half hour in the afternoon when your mister goes ON.
Since it clouds up a bit when it rains in the tropics. )

If you have a separate power cord / power to LED "moon-lites", then you can add a simple timer to that as well.

Folks debate whether these are needed or not.
see: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blue-led-lights-worth-104736/

And they are NOT a necessity.

But ...
Since they come FREE built in some fixtures... like the ones below....then why not use them?

I contend they are handy to create a nice "Twilight" effect.
(without Rob Pattenson and Kristen Stewart LOL. )

I personally think this bit of "Dusk" is important to give the Chams* a bit of time to settle in the foliage at night.

(* or any reptile for that matter.)

After all, the sun does not "snap" off in nature.

Anyway, you can set the LEDs to stay on an hour after all Flo. lighting has gone off for a very nice visual effect.

And if it helps them navigate their way in the dark to their favorite sleeping spot in the umbrella plant ..
or to their favorite roost on a vine...
All the better!

Here are a few pics of one type of quad fixture.. see below.

There are a few out nice options out there.

But be aware,
some quads do not have the options of turning off the LEDs (they just run all the time like on many saltwater models) and they do not have 2 power cords that allow you to use two timers and have a "stepped" light cycle.

Also
BUYER BEWARE

I specifically tested one type of HO t5 fixtures... that once were considered very well made and good... at one time

But I dropped them like a brick in favor of another brand (the new one you see in below pics).

Why?

Because they must have switched ballasts somewhere along the way at the FACTORY when manufacturing new ones. Probably to cheap out and cut cost.

And they drove the bulbs poorly.

SO POORLY that they lowered the UV out-put (and lux / lumen levels) of the UV B HO t5 bulbs to what you get with a t8 bulb.

I am sure there are others too that may not work well at all.. but I haven't tested them all.
Only what I can get my hands on.

So please make sure your HO t5 fixtures have proper ballasts that can drive the bulbs and generate the UV at the correct levels.

And also remember while on the subject of t5:

There are 2 kinds of t5 fixtures (and ballasts) commonly for sale:
NO and HO.

NO = Nominal Out-put. Also sometimes called "HE" for "high efficiency".
HO = High Out-put
You do not want NO.
NO is much WEAKER.

Yep.. NO is also cheaper. So many folks see the term "T5" online and it looks like a great deal.
And so they get "snookered".
When considering the NO (or HE) t5 fixtures... YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST STICK WITH or USE the good 'ol t8.
Since there is no advantage other than the bulbs are just "skinny-er".

For example:
the 46" (48") NO T5 bulbs are ONLY 28 - 30-sh watts.
Versus a HO (High Out-put) T5 bulb that is 54 watts.

So please keep that in mind when grabbing a t5 fixture at Home Depot or ordering what looks like a "good deal" on line.

And NO / Nominal Out-put will NOT drive Arcadia HO t5 bulbs.... or any other HO t5 bulb for that matter.

I don't know how many folks have bought those deep blue HE T5 fixtures only to end up unhappy & realize that they did not get what they expected.

The same goes for folks doing the home depot or lowes thing.
They see the term "t5" and what seems like a good price.
Get it and get it home.... all hooked up over the Chams.....
Only to find out what they thought they were getting a nice bright fixture....
but in reality they just end up with a fixture that can only drive a fairly dim skinny bulb.


Remember, folks can feel free to e-mail me with any t5 questions.
Thats what I am here for.
[email protected]

Cheers!
Todd

OH!
BIG FYI!!
If you get an HO t5 fixture and use Arcadia UVB bulbs in it ---
AND DO NOT REMOVE THE PLASTIC LENS....
you will ultimately RUIN your Chameleon with MBD!!!

Why?
Because the plastic lens does NOT transmit UV B.

**
However, one can be creative and CUT & use only PART of this plastic lens on these type fixtures to create a UV gradient.
Make a LOW UV zone, or allow use of HO t5 Arcadias on shallower (less tall) set ups.
And also this trick is good CUSTOMIZE UV levels using these fixtures to suit baby chams, etc. etc.

Remember, folks can feel free to e-mail me with any t5 questions.
Thats what I am here for.
[email protected]

Thanks for the time and effort spent on this post! I will definitely look into what you have to offer.