apoligizing for my "speeding up the hatching" thread

[Fate X]

i wanted to apoligize for asking if its possible to speed up the hatching process. i understand now that i should never ask a question about speeding up the hatching process so if anyone besides anderson took offense please accept my apology.
i only have 1 yr and 3weeks experience working with chameleons however ive had numerous reptiles all my life.

 

[Brian S]

No need for apology. The entire thread got out of hand and some harsh things were said on both sides. I feel that apologies were made in the original thread, and i would think the majority of the other users would think so too.

 

[roo_71]

I should apologize too. I’ve been sort of dink this week … no, scratch that … I was a dink this week.

-roo

 

[Jerambis]

You should not apologize Fate X, the people that were rude to you should. All you did was ask a question in search of an answer.

 

[Will Hayward]

There ARE such things as dumb questions.

 

[Heika]

There ARE such things as dumb questions.

Haha! Leave it to Will..

Along those lines, someone sent me this quote today...

"There may not be any stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

Much of our posted communication relies on our ability to express ourselves in a way that presents technical issues that often get dangled-up with misunderstood emotional outbursts on both sides (or is it visa-versa ). Anyway, I certainly wasn't an English major, so I have to rely on myself to stop and think about it as if I was a doctor who was just asked by a 13yr-old about how often is it safe to have unprotected sex. The doctor is about to launch into a tirade from multiple directions when he realizes that facts have to be presented in such a way that it will be constructive yet get the total message across including the other "issues". Well, anyway, I hope you get the idea. Remember, this post is also a good example of WHY I wasn't an English major as much as anything .

Two ways to ask the same question:


"I can't wait any longer. How can I force my eggs to hatch now?"

Or

"I may have missed the "break diapause" window for my precious clutch of eggs. Should I do anything at this point that will have a beneficial outcome?"

Answer:

"There was a brilliant D ) post made by a member just a few days ago. You might have missed it. It was a link to an article written about a Veiled egg diapause study."

https://www.chameleonforums.com/effects-temp-moisture-veiled-2966/

It may give you some insight into the issue.

 

[Agentspades]

There is a big difference between someone being and knowing they are knowledgeble and intelligent and someone making sure everyone else knows they are. With that being said I was so very excited when I found this forum, I thought I found a place where I can come and ask questions and learn from everyone here. Instead what I found is rude, smarta** people that barelly give you the time of day, unless you are their friend or you buy something from them. To me that is such a contadiction, if you all are supposed to love these animals you would want to make sure that newbies get their stuff straight and do it right, being harsh is not the way. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

 

[Bryan]

I just recentley joined this forum, and was excited at first....how cool to interact with others about our dear little friends....but now as I read, and have read on several occasions ( and got the same responses as Fate X) it seems like there are some members that think they are the authority on everything to do with chameleons....that can be very hurtful and not helpful... (Originally Posted by dkollaritsch)

Humm
Agentspades..nice reply... Not the Doctor Phil or authority on chameleons act.

 

[Chris Anderson]

I wasn’t going to get into this but I’m just in awe by the attitude many of the new posters are taking with the rest of the forum members who have nothing to gain from being here other then help you. The fact of the matter is, almost every shred of information anyone posts on this forum is easily accessible if the poster spent some time doing their own research. Forum members take time out of their own lives and commitments to provide resources and information to you for the benefit of your animals, even if a quick search by the original poster could yield the same results. There are a number of very experienced individuals on this forum who spend a lot of time answering questions and trying to help and I think the results are obvious when you compare the illness and death rates of chameleons on this forum versus other forums.

Obviously a number of new posters seem to feel recent posts by myself and a few others were unjustified or that it somehow indicates that they will be treated unfairly in their own posts. The forum members here (including myself typically) are quite tolerant of questions from experienced and new keepers alike and make every effort to make people feel welcome. By far the majority of questions are addressed completely by multiple individuals. Obviously, different members post with differing regularity based on their own commitments, whether others have appropriately answered a question already or not and their own experience. They don’t selectively post by who buys stuff from them and doesn’t. Very few individuals are ever targeted by anyone and those that ever are, have really done quite a bit to make others feel it is necessary.

Typically, the forum members advise, make recommendations and tell people what needs to be done in a very kind manner. Generally, such information and recommendations are taken quite well and the animals do excellently. In other cases, the keeper doesn’t listen for whatever reason and their animals very frequently suffer. At a certain point, it becomes obvious that sugar coating and holding an individual’s hand through their failures and shortcomings is not benefiting that person’s animals. At this point, those individuals need to be told how it is. I couldn’t care less if I hurt someone’s feelings once they’ve proven they aren’t progressing at all with the sugar coated hand holding they’ve been given and aren’t going to make the right choices on their own. We are here for the benefit of the animals, and if that means someone gets their toes stepped on because they aren’t responding to anything else when they need to, my personal opinion is good, maybe it’ll get through to them and if not, it isn’t like we hadn’t tried it nicely already. Forum members aren’t going to tell you that its okay and that you did your best when you didn’t and have shown over time that you aren’t going to even when you know better.

In this case, the poster has exhibited a prolonged history of choices that have negatively impacted the animals, have been only in the interest of making the poster’s life easier and in some cases, what I’d call blatant neglect and abuse. Putting off vet visits despite being told about the severity of the situations, breeding females far too young after being told it wasn’t safe, trying repeatedly to self administer meds without a reason or vet assistance, and the list goes on. They’ve had the benefit of sugar coating and hand holding for a year and have not at any point altered such behavior.

Further, often posts on a forum can be misinterpreted. A lot of posters cut the chit chat and get right to the point without any fluffing. Its not cause they are arrogant or rude or think you aren't worthy, its just the way they post - straight to the point. A lot can be misinterpreted online and even if you think something is meant one way, its probably best to relax and try to see it differently or wait and see if that poster acts differently with you then other threads.

If a poster is open to suggestions when they come here for advice, shows that they are serious about the best interest of their animal, makes an effort to learn what they need to and doesn’t start spreading poor advice themselves, they will be well received, their questions will be answered to the best of the forum member’s abilities, they will be able to benefit themselves and others on the forum (experienced and new keepers alike) and you’ll likely make friends. If a poster asks questions and then rejects the advice because it requires more of an effort then they want to put in, refuses to act in the best interest of the animal (take them to the vet, don’t breed the cham too young, etc.), makes it clear they are only here to be spoon fed or go on to spread bad information, that person will probably not be very popular and it will be pretty obvious. Basically, if you want help or have something you want to talk about with other forum members, don’t waste everyone’s time who is trying to help and this will be a very friendly forum and you’ll enjoy yourself.

But hey, that’s just my opinion…like it or not.

Chris

 

[Sal]

Agentspades and Brian,

All forums are like this.. it is not unique to this one. It is the very nature of a forum to have many different opinions and personalities and it is only natural for some not to get along, some to be more aggressive and others to argue, and friendships and alliances to form.

But everyone here has the chams best interests at heart and that is why sometimes a passionate voice can be mistaken as a 'know-it-all' and frustration appears when questions and comments are stated by those whose intentions are not clear..

It is how things are resolved that is important - not the disagreements themselves.

 

[roo_71]

There is a big difference between someone being and knowing they are knowledgeble and intelligent and someone making sure everyone else knows they are.

So how can you effectively tell the difference between the two? - because everyone has the potential to interpret things differently then the other. If someone posts a lot of good information and is a bit dry and to the point does that mean they are a snob and trying to come off all knowing?

-roo

 

[Agentspades]

Yes different people can take things in different ways. It is always a pleasure when someone who knows their stuff posts and shares their knowledge but there is a wrong and a right way about it. They have to understand that sometimes newbies dont know any better and they have to try and not judge and not jump to conclusions about a person. One never knows the person who might be asking a question might be a child that is just getting into this hobby, what kind of an example are you setting for them? I am in no way bashing anyone because like I said I am here to learn from everyone. I am also a memebr on a different forum and I must say its like night and day, I actually enjoy posting on the other one and talking about my pets, I find myself coming here and attempting to search through the hundreds of old posts to find answers which I sometimes cannot locate. All I am saying is that we should all respect one another, not sugarcoat, not kiss butt just respect and try to understand that just because you have experience does not give you the right to act like a know-it-all.

 

[Heika]

I am in no way bashing anyone because like I said I am here to learn from everyone

Just want to point out that the following quote from you felt a bit like a bash.

Instead what I found is rude, smarta** people that barelly give you the time of day, unless you are their friend or you buy something from them.

This is my favorite forum. I am pretty active here, as you can see by my post count. I am not selling anything, and the vast majority of the keepers and hobbyists here aren't either. There are folks that do, but they are here to help people new to the hobby, not to make a buck. It is probably a better strategy for a seller to avoid forums. Most do. That way, personality doesn't get mixed up with sales.

Chris summed it up well, and I won't detract from his post. I agree with him completely.

Heika

 

[Agentspades]

What I meant was I am not talking about anyone in particular, just as a whole the majority of the people sometimes come off harsh, rude and disrespectfull. If we didnt want to learn and didnt want to improve our husbandry of the animals we would not be here, I would not be here attempting to make the "elders" understand that all the newbies ask for is honest, reliable answers and thats it. I love my chams just like I am sure everyone here does as well, I want to make sure I can provide the best possible care for them.

 

[Fate X]

anderson says:

In this case, the poster has exhibited a prolonged history of choices that have negatively impacted the animals, have been only in the interest of making the poster’s life easier and in some cases, what I’d call blatant neglect and abuse. Putting off vet visits despite being told about the severity of the situations, breeding females far too young after being told it wasn’t safe, trying repeatedly to self administer meds without a reason or vet assistance, and the list goes on. They’ve had the benefit of sugar coating and hand holding for a year and have not at any point altered such behavior.




anderson you are so full of crap i cannot believe your even trying to lie.
ive only had my chameleons for a year plus 1 month.
first i did breed the females young thats true.
second i took lucky to the vet 5-7 days after she got eggbound ,the meds i gave her were injections that the vet gave me to give her.
third i did wait to take splinter for her eye issue but shes fine now and so is lucky.

I NEVER ADMINASRIRED MEDS WITHOUT A VET ASSISTANCE.

I DID START A THREAD TO ASK IF I COULD ADMINASTIR BAYTRIL MYSELF.
I NEVER GAVE ANY OF MY CHAMS BAYTRIL OR ANYTHING THAT WASN'T PRESCRIBED BY A VET.

THIRDLY I SPEND HOURS CARING FOR MY CHAMELEONS AND THEY ARE ALL HEALTHY.

THE FACT THAT U ACCUSE ME OF NEGLECTING AND ABUSING MY ANIMALS MAKES ME HATE YOUR ROTTEN GUTS.

 

[Will Hayward]

What I meant was I am not talking about anyone in particular, just as a whole the majority of the people sometimes come off harsh, rude and disrespectfull. If we didnt want to learn and didnt want to improve our husbandry of the animals we would not be here, I would not be here attempting to make the "elders" understand that all the newbies ask for is honest, reliable answers and thats it. I love my chams just like I am sure everyone here does as well, I want to make sure I can provide the best possible care for them.

Some people just can't take "honesty" well...

 

[Bryan]

attitude... is the love for Chameleons. So don't respond to a post in a frustrating and unprofessional manner when someone ask's a question. I respect all fourm members.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Well put Chris

And to Fate X

i wanted to apoligize for asking if its possible to speed up the hatching process.

Frankly, I saw your question as far less offensive than some of those who criticized the responses. I took a humorous, but hopefully also constructive, shot at your earlier question. As Chris outlined, to get a good answer, you need to ask a good question, or at least format it better. In your case, it is recommended to list your current understanding or experience, and then ask for guidance or improvements to that. It may take some homework, but in all fairness to those whom you expect (or hope for) an answer from, it helps define your question "as compared to this", as you asked about "speed", so as to mean "faster than". For all we knew, you were already doing it as quickly as can be done, or were making an egregious error.

To those who scoffed at some who posted here, and then praised others who always answer .......... not here they don't !!!

Fate, if you check out the link posted earlier, you will see that there are accepted protocols, which include a diapause, which often result in eggs hatching more quickly than without any temperature fluctuation. I often recommend against it for small-scale breeders or hobbyists, for it usually involves the use of small incubators, rubed-up contraptions, etc, where a malfunction can cook your eggs. I know of many to whom this has happened, and I strongly caution against using anything where a simple malfunction can result in the loss of your clutch(es). However, if more stable means are available to create a diapause, such as a cool spot in a basement or closet (upper 60's), then a stable warmer (upper 70's) area, then you can make use of such, from the beginning, with future clutches. Happy hunting.

 

[Fate X]

i use to respect everyone here but not no more. chameleonboy anderson has taken things way to far. i really never thought anyone here would bash someone to the extent chameleonboy has.it really upset me because of all the time i invest in my chameleons and to have anderson start bashing on me just so as it makes him feel better. he should be ashamed of himself.