Antibiotic for 3g baby?

[DrewBert]

Question: How can I treat an RI in a 3 gram baby veiled chameleon? Anyone know a good Herp dr in southern NJ?

Hiya! I recently bought a veiled chameleon from.... ugh... Petsmart. He showed signs of an infection from day 1 (eye closing). Eventually he started bubbling and popping so I took him to the vet. Vet was not good with Chameleons, he said the chameleon looked healthy even though I told him it's closing its eyes and bubbles coming out of it's mouth, he also said they would not treat the chameleon as it's too small to find an accurate dose. Since then I've acquired some Rept-aid and 10% generic Baytril. I've been giving him the Rept-aid (1-2 drops 2x a day) and I'm on day 7 right now but he seems to be getting worse. I'm seriously considering giving him the Baytril after the 10 days that Rept-aid recommends but he's only 3 grams... I will post the "ask for help" sheet when I get home. Thanks

 

[Andee]

Rept-aid honestly won't treat a severe RI. And grams is very.... tiny so I can understand the nervousness of treating it, but I definitely would go to a good vet if you can find one before doing it. I will tag @jannb to see if she can find you someone. I do not know what he would need, he is so small and baytril is very dangerous even for adult chams because it can make them very dehydrated and cause stomach issues.

 

[Lennoncham]

3 grams? That is way to small for them to have sold him. But then again it is petsmart. I thought melon was tiny when I got her and she was 16.6 grams. (She is also from petsmart). As for you question I'm not sure.

 

[jannb]

Here's a list of reptile vets in NJ.
http://thereptilereport.com/new-jersey-reptile-veterinary-directory/

 

[DrewBert]

Thanks for the responses. This is a learning experience for me and whether or not little Bert pulls through I have learned a lot and most of it has been through these forums.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male Veiled Chemeleon, 1.5-2mos old, I have had him for 3 weeks
• Handling - Twice a day to give him Rept-aid and water
• Feeding - I give him Crickets and Blue Bottle Flies, I have also offered him the smallest Horn Worms available but he will not eat... The only food he really shows interest in is the Flies and he may eat 1-2 crickets a day if I do not offer him Flies. I put 5-6 crickets in his feeder cup and offer 5-10 blue bottle Flies. He is not gaining or losing weight and I believe he may be stunted. I offer the food to him after he has been given the Rept-Aid (9am & 6pm).The feeders eat the orange flukers cubes and I give them fresh greens, mainly Kale. He just ate crickets out of desperation, it's getting hard for him to catch the Flies and he gets frustrated and starts rubbing his eyes on the branch, it's tough to watch.
• Supplements - Repticalcium w/out D3 daily, aqua culture calcium w/ D3 twice a month, Reptivite twice a month, I only dust the crickets
• Watering - I hand mist the tank 3-4 times a day and have a reptifogger set on high that goes on 3x a day for 30 min, the last being 2 hrs before bed. The condensation from the reptifogger drips directly onto a fake plant. I do see him drink but it is getting harder for him with the eye infection.
• Fecal Description - Right now brown w/ white urates, I noticed orange urates 3 days ago and started giving him water in an eye dropper after giving him the Rept-aid
• History - I think he may have had the start of an RI when I bought him, he also is missing some toenails which I assume the crickets ate at the petsmart.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen reptibreeze 16x16x30, I closed off the back and 1/2 of the sides for humidity
• Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 & 70 watt soft white, I have a second heat light if I ever need to raise the temps (same 70w soft white)
• Temperature - Basking has been 90-95 I know this is hot for a baby but I have been keeping it high because he's sick. Bottom of the tank is 75-80, he never goes down there. Overnight temp 75-80. I have a digital thermometer at the basking spot, a thermometer/hygrometer combo, and aquarium thermometers at the bottom.
• Humidity - 50-80% I have 2 warm mist humidifiers in addition to the reptifogger & hand misting. Hygrometer
• Plants - Spider Plant, ficus Benjamina bonsai, small mat of moss directly under the reptifogger.
• Placement - In my room which I'm never in except to check him. it is near a window and I worry about drafts so I've been leaving the warm mist humidifiers on low at night as they heat up the area near his tank. The highest point in his tank point is about 5 feet from the ground.
• Location - New Jersey, USA

 

[DrewBert]

Here's a list of reptile vets in NJ.
http://thereptilereport.com/new-jersey-reptile-veterinary-directory/

Thanks I did try to see Dr. Warren Briggs in Lakewood but he was on vacation so I ended up getting someone less experienced

 

[Andee]

It sounds like you are doing things right as far as keeping him going with his RI while waiting for a vet visit. All of it I would recommend except maybe the reptaid. It honestly depends on how you are offering it. Do you have any pictures of him? Especially his eyes? I want to see how bad the infection is and whether adding some extra lubrication manually would help or whether he needs them flushed by a vet.

 

[Andee]

I am going to tag a couple others who might be able to help with the baytril amount if you really have to go with that. Idk, it makes me worried treating him so young with baytril. @jajeanpierre @jpowell86 @OldChamKeeper @Extensionofgreen These guys might help with the dosage. <3

 

[DrewBert]

The first pic I just took, the 2nd is one of him drinking, and the 3rd is where he usually sleeps

 

[Andee]

He doesn't honestly look like his eyes are infected. You could try adding some extra lubrication by getting a gel lubricant that has no preservatives (you can find it in a pharmacy) all you have to do is draw a line with a single drop of it on the opening of his eye and when he opens them he will roll it into his eye. He may just have something he needs help removing with some extra lube. Or he might be bothered by the lighting. I do the lubrication thing with my blindish chameleon everyday. It helps a lot. And he's starting to be able to see with a lot of the changes I have made.

 

[DrewBert]

Here are some more pics of the eyes and the enclosure, he just picked up a fly so that's why he's standing in the pic of the enclosure

 

[Andee]

You definitely don't have enough foliage for him to get out of the uvb easily so I wouldn't be surprised if the lights were bugging him

 

[DrewBert]

He doesn't honestly look like his eyes are infected. You could try adding some extra lubrication by getting a gel lubricant that has no preservatives (you can find it in a pharmacy) all you have to do is draw a line with a single drop of it on the opening of his eye and when he opens them he will roll it into his eye. He may just have something he needs help removing with some extra lube. Or he might be bothered by the lighting. I do the lubrication thing with my blindish chameleon everyday. It helps a lot. And he's starting to be able to see with a lot of the changes I have made.

You definitely don't have enough foliage for him to get out of the uvb easily so I wouldn't be surprised if the lights were bugging him

Really appreciate the interest and help andee, I did give him some saline washes w/ an eye dropper and that did seem to help, I will start doing that again and look into the eye lubricant, as for cover I will go look into getting him some more foliage tonight

 

[Andee]

The lubricant I like because it only needs to be done once a day and is less stressful and invasive.

 

[DrewBert]

I took the ficus out and put a larger Schefflera in there, he seems to like it and he's not closing his eyes as much now, earlier I watched him take out 3 flies in a row no problem! I stopped giving him the Reptaid and he seems to be doing better, not having as much trouble breathing and I haven't heard him pop today though I did see 1 bubble. I'm not takeing him out today but I will monitor the eye problem and lube if necessary. I think Monday I will take him to a vet from that list Jannb had posted, I will come back and post a follow up. thx again everyone!

 

[Andee]

I am so glad he seems to be doing better ^^ the RI will definitely likely need antibiotics from the sounds of it, it had gotten pretty bad, probably because he wasn't eating that well and was stressed with his eyes etc. But since he seems to be feeling better and eating better he may (very unlikely so I would suggest the vet as you plan to go) pull out of it by himself. Just keep his supportive care where it is now and it seems like with how much better he has already gotten he will likely be pretty stable until Monday. I am also wondering if he nibbled on any of the ficus and that was actually causing his symptoms. Rubbing his eyes especially on a freshly cut part of the ficus would also cause issues. He seems a bit young for a veiled to start eating greens but he might have. And ficus have some nasty issues if ingested even in small quantities for most animals. It's why I don't use them for plant nibblers like veiled. Too dangerous.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Part of the issues with hand misting is that the duration needed and the fact that the chamelon is wary of you, means they aren't properly cleaning their eyes.
I'd continue with warmer temps and institute 3 x weekly showers for 15-30 mins in warm water.
Warm mist humidifiers can contribute to bacterial and fungal respiratory infections and ultrasonic or coolmist humidifiers are preferred, though I agree good humidity is helpful, especially at this time.
If he isn't wheezing, popping, gaping, and seems to be improving, I'd be wary of being too aggressive with frequent medication and harsh drugs. Consult a vet and if an antibiotic is needed ask about an injectable, like Fortaz, that requires less handling and gentler on such tiny bodies.