Anoles as a feeder

[eisentrauti]

Yea, I meant like every 6 months or so...I think that is what my vet said....I didnt mean like with the supplement schedule!!

Isnt it kinda crazy how we all have our own ways of doing things!! Humans are so damn stubborn!!!

But you never should give such things prophylactic. Your vet seems to make some money with you

 

[nick barta]

Thanks for all the responses. It appears separate of the ethical issues, Anoles may be more work to have a sustainable feeder than it is worth.

Nick

 

[elianto]

i think eisentrauti is right,
the amount and uality of parasites carried by another reptile is definetly different from the one of a bug,even if wildcaught.

i know that in nature a cham would never say no to a bird a lizard or a baby mouse or whatever, but it is also known that in captivity the parasites litterally explode inside the animal,and i don't think that a two week quarantine in you anoles is enough to make sure you got rid of everything,that maybe only a fecal would show.

you would have to debug feeder,then feed to cham,and that's way too much ..work,compared to a good gutloaded roach.

my two cents

 

[nick barta]

Ok, I don't know this. Is it worthwile to breed them as feeders I mean if sb do this with Pogona vitticeps I understand it, but anoles ?

Homer,

You have great challenging ideas on chameleon feeding and food sources. Could you list the various feeders you and other Chameleon keepers use in Germany?

Nick

 

[codiwatkins]

But you never should give such things prophylactic. Your vet seems to make some money with you

What are you referring to when you say "such things"

And The dewormer is store bought. My vet is actually very reasonable and isnt "making some money off me as you say"

Where the heck is brock when you need him!! Im trying to find a very Very great post about chitin and how its good for your chams skin as well feeidng small birds or even anoles.

 

[jojackson]

Im sure some chitin in the diet is very natural indeed since most insects have it, it probably provides roughage/fibre, some proteins perhaps, but I dont see how it might be particularly good for skin as anything else in a natural balanced diet.
I dont share Brocks theory that chitin ingested is converted to chitin developement in the lizard that eats it.
I think I added my thoughts (got on my soapbox if you prefer) to the thread you mention Codi, but cant for the life of me remember what it was called, or even which
forum it was in, but ill try to find it.

Im curious about how many eggs per clutch and how many clutches per season an anole is capable of too, somebody here mentioned a plan to breed them and geckos for their vine snakes and I had the same thought, that sustaining an animal on them may be difficult for this reason, although with enough pairs, artificially induced to breed regardless the time of year, meeting the needs of a snake would be possible.

If you only fed an anole or gecko hatchling to your lizard when they did breed , aka a few times a season, this would probly come close to emulating how often a cham might catch one in nature.

Is this the thread Codi?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/lets-talk-about-beta-25505/

 

[eisentrauti]

@Codi:
Please ask other vets or wait for some other responses. "Such things" are medicine like the "dewormer". They never should be given for prophylactic therapy. The reason I've said you already

@Nick:
I don't have much big chameleons, my biggest is my female parsonii, she's a bit longer than 40 cm.

Here's a list of bigger feeders:
Blaptica dubia or other big growing roaches
Big grasshoppers/locusts (yeah I know that they are forbidden in the US)
I buy them or catch smaller ones outdoors
Adult crickets (there are some different species of them)
Earthworms
Mantids
Walkingsticks

And as well small feeders like different flies etc.

(Adult panthers eat Drosophilas !!! It's just a question on how much food you give them. If they get too much they would never look on such small insects. In the nature they are forced to do that

Regards
Benny

 

[codiwatkins]

Im sure some chitin in the diet is very natural indeed since most insects have it, it probably provides roughage/fibre, some proteins perhaps, but I dont see how it might be particularly good for skin as anything else in a natural balanced diet.
I dont share Brocks theory that chitin ingested is converted to chitin developement in the lizard that eats it.
I think I added my thoughts (got on my soapbox if you prefer) to the thread you mention Codi, but cant for the life of me remember what it was called, or even which
forum it was in, but ill try to find it.

Im curious about how many eggs per clutch and how many clutches per season an anole is capable of too, somebody here mentioned a plan to breed them and geckos for their vine snakes and I had the same thought, that sustaining an animal on them may be difficult for this reason, although with enough pairs, artificially induced to breed regardless the time of year, meeting the needs of a snake would be possible.

If you only fed an anole or gecko hatchling to your lizard when they did breed , aka a few times a season, this would probly come close to emulating how often a cham might catch one in nature.

Is this the thread Codi?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/lets-talk-about-beta-25505/

YES!! that is what it was.....Thanks for finding it. I was confused. Like you said the insects provide the chitin. Thanks for finding it!

 

[eisentrauti]

The bones of the vertebrates are also healthy for the ca needs of females. Jo's really right here

 

[codiwatkins]

@Codi:
Please ask other vets or wait for some other responses. "Such things" are medicine like the "dewormer". They never should be given for prophylactic therapy. The reason I've said you already

@Nick:
I don't have much big chameleons, my biggest is my female parsonii, she's a bit longer than 40 cm.

Here's a list of bigger feeders:
Blaptica dubia or other big growing roaches
Big grasshoppers/locusts (yeah I know that they are forbidden in the US)
I buy them or catch smaller ones outdoors
Adult crickets (there are some different species of them)
Earthworms
Mantids
Walkingsticks

And as well small feeders like different flies etc.

(Adult panthers eat Drosophilas !!! It's just a question on how much food you give them. If they get too much they would never look on such small insects. In the nature they are forced to do that

Regards
Benny

I understand what you are saying about the meds not working if being costantly used. But is it not the same as doworming your dof. I know they are two diffrent things but it is still the same concept. It is a prevenative measure. Im telling people to go out and give there cham a dewormer EVERYDAY , EVERY week, Or even EVERY month. But I dont think that deworming your cham every 6 months or so is going to make anything resistant.....

So I didnt know that chams would eat earthworms?? Will panthers or is It just one of those crazy bad ass types that you keep!! You really do have quite an impressive collection!!!

 

[eisentrauti]

Why shouldn't they eat it ? In the nature the possiblity to get a earthworm is much higher than getting a pinkie

To the dewormer: It would possible work with hardy species like calyptratus, pardalis or verrucosus but not with many other ones. Those medicines are very problematic for the intestinal flora
Many small species die very fast because of such medicines

 

[codiwatkins]

Why shouldn't they eat it ? In the nature the possiblity to get a earthworm is much higher than getting a pinkie

To the dewormer: It would possible work with hardy species like calyptratus, pardalis or verrucosus but not with many other ones. Those medicines are very problematic for the intestinal flora
Many small species die very fast because of such medicines

OK OK!!! I will keep in mind what you are saying!

Im going to def try the earthworm thing. I see them all the time, but I have never heard of anyone using them so I didnt know that they would eat them!

 

[jojackson]

My veiled loves the occasional earth worm

 

[eisentrauti]

Here are the points for earthworms:

+cheap
+easy to catch
+very, very healthy (I've read an article about caudata feeding, the earthworms were to most healthiest feeders!)
+they couldn't escape easy
+when they escape: who cares ? they just dehyrate
+could be breed fast and effective
+ the calcium : phospor correlation is very good for reptils

-the ones from compost aren't good, many reptiles don't like them

I take them as the basic feeder for my firesalamanders and Triturus species (T.cristatus superspecies)

 

[codiwatkins]

Here are the points for earthworms:

+cheap
+easy to catch
+very, very healthy (I've read an article about caudata feeding, the earthworms were to most healthiest feeders!)
+they couldn't escape easy
+when they escape: who cares ? they just dehyrate
+could be breed fast and effective

-the ones from compost aren't good, many reptiles don't like them

so say i went to fishing bate store.....would that be the right kind???

 

[eisentrauti]

Those are worms from canadia if I'm informed right. they are quite expensive but an excellent feeder. We have here a supplier which just sell those normal earthworms

 

[jojackson]

They could be anything Codi, your probly best digging them up from your garden, or purchasing a worm farm complete with worms. You just recycle your kitchen scraps through the farm and the worms will thrive.
You can make a moist patch in your garden by turning the soil well then covering it with sacking of some kind, or an old peice of carpet, then this helps retain the moisturein the soil beneath that worms need.
once a week you can tip some water onto. too easy. If you add organics beneath the carpet, all the better.

 

[codiwatkins]

They could be anything Codi, your probly best digging them up from your garden, or purchasing a worm farm complete with worms. You just recycle your kitchen scraps through the farm and the worms will thrive.
You can make a moist patch in your garden by turning the soil well then covering it with sacking of some kind, or an old peice of carpet, then this helps retain the moisturein the soil beneath that worms need.
once a week you can tip some water onto. too easy. If you add organics beneath the carpet, all the better.[/QUOTE

WOW!!! So would I just put them in my chams feeder cup?? Is it ok for my babies???

 

[eisentrauti]

yeah, you can also cut them with a knife in smaller pieces or you can look for smaller worms for your smaller chams
they are a very healthy diet. try it !

 

[Rocky]

I didn't know chams ate earthworms either I figured it was a fish meal

On another note, I see no problem in feeding a chameleon an anole. If given the opportunity they would do it in the wild. There are video's of larger chameleons eating smaller chameleons as well as small birds. They could be doing it for a source of food or there could also be an underlying reason (the vertebrate could be adding something that they can not receive from insects).

Also, Eisentauti, I wish I could have your chameleon collection