Aflactoxicosis, crickets and moldy grain

[cyberlocc]

I lost a lot more than six. A lot more. I can't even remember. I think I lost half of my malthe so that's six right there. I lost a lot more than six quads and graciliors. Some were killed for necropsies and might have recovered. The quads and graciliors I lost were babies except one adult wc gracilior. Few of the adults seemed ill. It showed up mostly in the baby quads and graciliors and even the sickest baby lying writhing on its back would recover with intense care. Any Calumma malthe that got sick, even adult long term captives, died except one.

Somehow my posts are getting mixed up. I blame my laptop which has a mind of its own.

The picture of the big male gracilior male in the post above is one of the affected babies. He was 10 grams and in convulsions on the bottom of his cage. For two weeks I wasn't sure if he would live or die. Whenever I handled him (twice a day force feeding diluted carnivore care) would send him into convulsions. I wasn't sure my feeding and hydrating him wasn't going to kill him right there in my hands. He recovered after weeks of intensive care. I had babies that would lie ON THEIR BACKS and black on the bottom of the cage that recovered. The big male above was one of the worst affected babies.

Man that sucks. I'm so sorry that happened to you, and that we drudged up the bad memories .

At least, we can use it to be better in the future and make sure it doesn't happen to others.

I hope all is well with you, you are an asset to this community .

 

[jajeanpierre]

@jajeanpierre Thank you for chiming in. Your experience, sad as it was, has provided valuable information. I think this is a condition that people need to put on their differential diagnosis when weakness is a symptom.

What's depressing is that few believe me or my vets. It cost me a lot to come forward and share. My honesty and integrity was questioned by at least one person on these forums.

 

[cyberlocc]

What's depressing is that few believe me or my vets. It cost me a lot to come forward and share. My honesty and integrity was questioned by at least one person on these forums.

If it's any consolation, I always believed you .

 

[JacksJill]

What's depressing is that few believe me or my vets. It cost me a lot to come forward and share. My honesty and integrity was questioned by at least one person on these forums.

That is unfortunate. It takes time for people to accept new ideas. I thought it was incredibly brave of you to share your experience and that you put chameleon care first over a perception of reputation.
We really are just scratching the surface on the diseases and related conditions of this family. many things just get thrown under the heading of MBD or poor husbandry that have more specific causes. Their small body size and tiny blood volume prevent the level of diagnosis that is routine in larger pets and humans.

 

[jajeanpierre]

That is unfortunate. It takes time for people to accept new ideas. I thought it was incredibly brave of you to share your experience and that you put chameleon care first over a perception of reputation.
We really are just scratching the surface on the diseases and related conditions of this family. many things just get thrown under the heading of MBD or poor husbandry that have more specific causes. Their small body size and tiny blood volume prevent the level of diagnosis that is routine in larger pets and humans.

The research vet who had a fellowship at Zoological Society of London encouraged me to come forward. He said aflatoxicosis was an under diagnosed problem and a lot more common than people--and vets--believe.

It was a really really awful time because the animals were suffering horribly. I wanted to euthanize for humane reasons but all the vets--and there were a lot consulting on this--begged me to keep them alive at all costs until they could find out what was going on.

Here are some pictures that haunt me to this day. I include them to let people know just how awful this poisoning can be. Pictured is a young adult C. malthe who was a long term captive He's alive in both pictures and was alive for another 10 days. He was writhing on his back at the bottom of his cage for 10 days before he died. It just gutted me to witness his suffering while all the vets begged me not to euthanize him as they looked for a cause. It sucked the soul right out of me to watch such suffering. You can't imagine what it cost me to care for 20 animals at a time that were in this condition.

 

[snitz427]

how awful I'm sorry that you went through it and am thankful for you sharing your experience. Had you not, I may have taken a risk with my chameleons as my superworm bedding had gotten a bit moldy. We removed the worms and placed them in new bedding... but after reading your original thread, decided to just replace the superworms. I wouldn't take the chance now knowing what could be.

 

[Pascaltheveiled54]

How do I post a thing where people can reply

 

[JacksJill]

Oh, I am so sorry. How agonizing.
This was a more common occurrence in large animal husbandry historically. This is a toxin capable of killing cattle in high enough concentrations. The food standards we have now are the only reason people are unaware of it.
It is theorized that the first born plague of Egypt was probably due to mold contamination of the grain storage. First born sons were given the largest portions and so got the largest dose of toxin and so died rather than just being ill.

 

[snitz427]

How do I post a thing where people can reply

not in someone else's thread... click on forums, select the appropriate forum, and click on new thread

 

[jajeanpierre]

Oh, I am so sorry. How agonizing.
This was a more common occurrence in large animal husbandry historically. This is a toxin capable of killing cattle in high enough concentrations. The food standards we have now are the only reason people are unaware of it.
It is theorized that the first born plague of Egypt was probably due to mold contamination of the grain storage. First born sons were given the largest portions and so got the largest dose of toxin and so died rather than just being ill.

Interesting.

Retelling this story, even in such an abbreviated way has brought back a lot of grief. It was a real gut punch.

 

[cham_urchin]

holy cow....I now need to go lay down...