Aflactoxicosis, crickets and moldy grain

[cyberlocc]

Kenyans sound very similar to the Surinam that I got from @jamest0o0 . I haven't feed any of them off as they burrow and seem like they'd be a pita to dig out. They're in with one of the GBR bins.

They are similar in Size (Surinams are slightly bigger). However Surinam are known burrowers, Kenyans really don't burrow afaik.

Surinams are also parthenogenetic, you are braver than me. I would never keep a parthenogenetic roach lol. Shoot I am too scared to keep Red Runners (Turks) due to infestation risk.

I grew up in Pheonix roaches were a real problem. Some of my friends houses, were littered with them, you would turn the lights on and the walls would move. It was bad.

 

[jamest0o0]

Well normally parthenogenic roaches would scare me, but without the substrate and humidity, they don't seem to do that well. They also make for great cricket replacement, my chams love them. It is a PITA digging them out sometimes though.

 

[cyberlocc]

Well normally parthenogenic roaches would scare me, but without the substrate and humidity, they don't seem to do that well. They also make for great cricket replacement, my chams love them. It is a PITA digging them out sometimes though.

Ya they are saying they mostly go after green houses to find shelter.

Neat little roaches though.

 

[snitz427]

Oh I havent fed them lol. Im terrified of Dubia let alone Surinams. My house plants would probably be a suitable home for them!

I practically have a hazmat suit and procedure for dealing with roach feedings lol

 

[cyberlocc]

Oh I havent fed them lol. Im terrified of Dubia let alone Surinams. My house plants would probably be a suitable home for them!

I practically have a hazmat suit and procedure for dealing with roach feedings lol

I don't think they really want to get out tbh. I was kind of scared with Hissers ability to climb glass, which they can, kind of but there is alot of slipping involved. I think that saying is more about "Slick Bins" than actual glass.

Anyway I use to have Vaseline on the top 2 inches. But I took it off, they don't really try to escape. Unless I am in there digging around, and then they panic, and fall back down anyway.

They have good temps, good humidity, food, they really don't want to go anywhere I think, aside from away from you.

 

[jamest0o0]

I have not attempted to keep them yet, but have read up on it quite a bit.

They like Hissers style or Isopods. They want substrate and bark to hide under. With highish humidity being preferred. Alot of places suggest keeping them with a larger roach species that has the same care requirements, I don't like doing that, do mine would be on their own, with springtails maybe but not Isopods.

They are live bearers, (in the same way Hissers are, the eggs are kept inside I think) and other than that, just like any other roaches.

I keep my roaches like that anyway, when I kept Dubia it was with substrate and my Hissers and Oranges have substrate as well. Oranges with substrate kind of smell, but they love it. They LOVE to burrow. Usually only males are on the bark, the females like to be in the soil.

I know that's a "downside" it's hard to find them, but I don't find it that bad. I prefer them to have a natural environment. My Hissers don't burrow at all, they like the soil and high humidity, and will eat leaf litter. But they stay in their cork flats/rounds or on top of them for the most part.

They do seem to like to bask, in light. When the lights are on, their is usually about 6-10 just sitting on top of the cork, in the light, just sitting there. After a little while, they will go back in and others will come out, like they are taking turns, looking out or basking or something IDK what they are doing tbh lol. If I move the tank, they get scared and run into the bark though.

The orange heads, don't do that. They come out in the light, and walk around for a bit and then go back in. They will sometimes go and eat during the day, and then go back. They tend to stay inside of their flats/soil more. However they don't, just bask in the light like the Hissers seem to..

I found discoids to be a perfect answer to the dubia dilemma. I made a post about it a while back, very underrated feeders. Was the only roach my Parsons would take out of the feeder cup.

I found hissers to do much better with dry and humid hideaways. I've done both and the dryer bin worked better. My halloweens exploded when I made the change.

My roaches don't seem too bothered by the light, I keep them dim during the day, dark at night(just because that's what's easy for me)

For surinam, you could leave the lid off with substrate and you'd probably never lose 1. They stay in the soil the whole time.

 

[jamest0o0]

"In the short term, aflatoxin poisoning may cause:

• Nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain.
• Convulsions.
• Pulmonary edema, which is fluid buildup in the lungs.
• Cerebral edema, which is fluid buildup in the brain.
• Blood abnormalities, such as an increased risk of bleeding out.
• Severe damage to the liver. (makes sense as the liver is the organ that deals with toxins in the body)
• Death."

My understanding is these symptoms are extremely uncommon with people and are usually due to reactions, just like breathing in mold. Some people have terrible reactions, some, don't notice a thing. Maybe I'm wrong?

Chams are smaller though, so I'd imagine it's magnified with them. It just confuses me that this would happen to so many chams all at once. If moldy grain was such a big deal, wouldn't more people be having this problem? I just don't understand... we're kind of the exception, most people are careless with their animals, yet you don't hear of this. Maybe something to do with graciliors in particular?? Idk

 

[cyberlocc]

I found discoids to be a perfect answer to the dubia dilemma. I made a post about it a while back, very underrated feeders. Was the only roach my Parsons would take out of the feeder cup.

I found hissers to do much better with dry and humid hideaways. I've done both and the dryer bin worked better. My halloweens exploded when I made the change.

My roaches don't seem too bothered by the light, I keep them dim during the day, dark at night(just because that's what's easy for me)

For surinam, you could leave the lid off with substrate and you'd probably never lose 1. They stay in the soil the whole time.

Good to know.

With the Hissers, your post wasn't very clear. Dry enclosure wide? Or some dry some not dry.

I have a 2 fold setup, like the later. The back bark against the glass, the flat has sphag at the bottom and when I mist, I spray the outside of the cork lightly, and soak the back glass and that sphag and do not get any water on the feeding side at all. They usually congregate back their, after I do that, and I have seen them seem to drink water off the glass, I don't provide crystals or nothing just foods with liquid content, so maybe that's why.

It's hard in their small bins, but probably best would be a Panther like conditions. They seem to inhabit the same areas, so a 40% during the day with 100% at night, or err on the drier side rather than wetter.

 

[JacksJill]

I would suspect graciliors are more susceptible, I would think any montane species with slower metabolism would have more reaction than those with higher metabolism. It maybe happening more often than we hear and is simply chalked up to MBD or gular edema. Few people put the money into diagnostics and have the team that she did.
Keep in mind just because something get moldy doesn't mean that it is that mold (Aspergillus)

 

[cyberlocc]

My understanding is these symptoms are extremely uncommon with people and are usually due to reactions, just like breathing in mold. Some people have terrible reactions, some, don't notice a thing. Maybe I'm wrong?

Chams are smaller though, so I'd imagine it's magnified with them. It just confuses me that this would happen to so many chams all at once. If moldy grain was such a big deal, wouldn't more people be having this problem? I just don't understand... we're kind of the exception, most people are careless with their animals, yet you don't hear of this. Maybe something to do with graciliors in particular?? Idk

I don't think it was only glacirors only that were affected. Jean keeps Vieileds and Panthers too I believe. She has alot of Chameleons. Like alot.

I remember one of her import threads, and she bought like 15 that day alone. I'm pretty sure she has a pretty large group of Chams. I don't think the 6 she lost made that large of a dent.

To us, 6 seems like alot, but to Jean I do not think it is.

 

[JacksJill]

I think the loss was more tragic because they can no longer be imported, their country is closed to export and is in a civil war.

 

[cyberlocc]

I think the loss was more tragic because they can no longer be imported, their country is closed to export and is in a civil war.

Oh I didn't mean the loss was "Okay" or anything like that at all.

I simply meant, as we are looking at it like it was alot of Chams. And it was to us, but to Janet, it was probably 10% or less of her collection. So it was a small portion of her Chams that were affected, she just has ALOT of Chams.

It was a huge loss to Janet and to the Quads breeding effort if they were all Quads affected. However the ratio of affected to not affected wasn't that great, was all I meant.

 

[JacksJill]

I got your point. She was a big buyer of fresh imports.
She sold off a lot of her collection before she moved a while back.

 

[cyberlocc]

I am raising green bananas, too, but dont' have a well enough established colony yet to feed them. I'm not sure how that's going to go - because the GIANT green bananas are insanely active. Wrangling them from the container will be interesting. The regular green bananas aren't as active.

My bugs all get 12 hours of daylight. The roaches are behind other ones, so they get filtered light. The GBRs are active regardless, but the dubia do tend to avoid the light when possible. They still come out for food but prefer the shadows. I think that is more of a safety thing... they are hiding from me more than the light.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get Giant Green bananas btw. I can never find them, I have been interested in them for awhile, but always only find P. Nivea.

 

[jamest0o0]

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get Giant Green bananas btw. I can never find them, I have been interested in them for awhile, but always only find P. Nivea.

The place she got hers, burned me. She lucked out though as hers are legit, they sent me half and half. If you want a real group of ggbr I know a good contact for them. I have more coming soon and you can trust it.

Oh and for the hissers, I do what you do basically... dry everywhere, then a couple humid pockets.

 

[snitz427]

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get Giant Green bananas btw. I can never find them, I have been interested in them for awhile, but always only find P. Nivea.

Cape Cod Roaches, although another member ordered some from there and were skeptical if they had only received regulars. I ordered both so you cant make that mistake with my order.

I hope to have some for sale down the road if they continue to do well. Not sure how the heck im going to transfer them to another bin!

 

[cyberlocc]

The place she got hers, burned me. She lucked out though as hers are legit, they sent me half and half. If you want a real group of ggbr I know a good contact for them. I have more coming soon and you can trust it.

Oh and for the hissers, I do what you do basically... dry everywhere, then a couple humid pockets.

Cool ya, hit me with the info. Or I will wait until you get some, and get some from you. I still want some Halloweens, too, just had a bunch of bills come up the last couple weeks. Later this month or early next I will have some money to burn though lol.

My daughter's birthday is June 19th and my sons is August 19, + School stuff. It's a bad couple of months in my house. Wife draining me lol.

 

[snitz427]

Oops lol didnt see James post. Well there you have it!

 

[cyberlocc]

Oops lol didnt see James post. Well there you have it!

Stepping on the toes hahaha. .

 

[snitz427]

Stepping on the toes hahaha. .

I meant about calling out the vendor / member that got burned. I could never compete with ol’ Jimbo’s critters!