ADVICE NEEDED! Juvi panther

[Leilaskeeper]

Hi everyone!

Although I appreciate everyone's advice, I really need some advice from some experienced panther owners right now.

I have taken in a chameleon who is severely dehydrated and not eating. He is drinking profusely and I've been showering him for the past half hour occassionally with mist. Eyes are sunken, legs and arms are very boney.

Unfortunately, I cannot take him to a vet. I have just offered to care for this chameleon to the best of my ability because at the moment I am home on mat leave. The owner of the chameleon cannot take care of it anymore nor can he afford a vet himself. My brother in law, who owns a reptile store will take it and sell it if he makes a recovery.

There is a possibility of impaction .. but I'm not sure. I'm staying positive and hoping I can help this little guy.

He is quite active .. roaming around my girls enclosure. I've let him adopt it for the day/night until he is warm and a bit more comfortable. I'm worried because all I have is what I believe to be a 10 gal aquarium w/ mesh on top. I have some fake plants I've put in and some grape vine for him. I'm letting my girl stay in there for now as she's healthy as can be. A day won't hurt.

Any suggestions? I'm trying to hand feed some butter worms and he has tried eating it twice but doesn't have the strength to chew.

Sorry I'm all over the place. I'm just very anxious to help and I thought someone could offer advice.

 

[skully23]

If your going to keep it til recovery I would work on getting something better to keep him in and let your girl be.
Keep the showers up and extra mistings. Include dripper and greens if he will eat. Some people use a hand squirter thing that u drop water into their mouths manually. Try that

good luck and also try to keep him up with the supplements and right gutloaded food...besides that I would really work on some money for a vet..its the best way to help more
Can you please post pictures of his set-up and him?

 

[Carlton]

He is drinking profusely and I've been showering him for the past half hour occassionally with mist. Eyes are sunken, legs and arms are very boney.

There is a possibility of impaction .. but I'm not sure.

He is quite active .. roaming around my girls enclosure. I've let him adopt it for the day/night until he is warm and a bit more comfortable. I'm worried because all I have is what I believe to be a 10 gal aquarium w/ mesh on top. I have some fake plants I've put in and some grape vine for him. I'm letting my girl stay in there for now as she's healthy as can be. A day won't hurt.

If he's drinking a lot you can get some nutrition into him without offering a large feeder he may not recognize. Some suggestions:

Get him drinking by spraying or whatever you are using. Once he is drinking you can use a needleless syringe or small hand sprayer to dribble warm water right onto the top of his head. Most thirsty chams will start licking the water as it runs down their face into their mouth. To give him some nutrients try some unflavored Pedialyte mixed in. This will give some electrolytes and dextrose. It is not for long term use, but might get some calories into him and speed up hydration. Dehydrated chams don't eat partially because their tongues don't "stick" to prey very well.

Why are you thinking there's an impaction? A dehydrated cham won't be eating or pooping either. Might be nothing unless the former keeper had lots of bark or moss substrate in the cage.

What did his former keeper house him in? Can you use it? What about a birdcage for either of the two chams? Borrow a cage from someone?

A very dehydrated cham will have trouble making up the loss if your air is dry. Live foliage and humid air will help a lot too.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

If your going to keep it til recovery I would work on getting something better to keep him in and let your girl be.
Keep the showers up and extra mistings. Include dripper and greens if he will eat. Some people use a hand squirter thing that u drop water into their mouths manually. Try that

good luck and also try to keep him up with the supplements and right gutloaded food...besides that I would really work on some money for a vet..its the best way to help more
Can you please post pictures of his set-up and him?

I'm going to try my best to get a better enclosure but I sure can't pay for a new enclosure and a vet at this time. At least not in the amount of time for this little guy to possibly survive.

Where could I get this squirter? It's like a syringe, correct? And do panthers eat greens? Can someone confirm this? Cuz I have a bunch of collards that my veiled eats .. I have heard that panthers don't care for veg.

I'll go get a pic of the cage. My apologies for the quality. I can't seem to locate my cam. I'm using my phone for now.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

If he's drinking a lot you can get some nutrition into him without offering a large feeder he may not recognize. Some suggestions:

Get him drinking by spraying or whatever you are using. Once he is drinking you can use a needleless syringe or small hand sprayer to dribble warm water right onto the top of his head. Most thirsty chams will start licking the water as it runs down their face into their mouth. To give him some nutrients try some unflavored Pedialyte mixed in. This will give some electrolytes and dextrose. It is not for long term use, but might get some calories into him and speed up hydration. Dehydrated chams don't eat partially because their tongues don't "stick" to prey very well.

Why are you thinking there's an impaction? A dehydrated cham won't be eating or pooping either. Might be nothing unless the former keeper had lots of bark or moss substrate in the cage.

What did his former keeper house him in? Can you use it? What about a birdcage for either of the two chams? Borrow a cage from someone?

A very dehydrated cham will have trouble making up the loss if your air is dry. Live foliage and humid air will help a lot too.

Wow, thank you! This is valuable information. I'm going to get him some pedialyte right now and a syringe. I'm hoping I can find this at a drug store. I'm going to see if I can borrow a cage from my brother in law. I have two beautiful scheffleras in my windows but this little aquarium would never fit them, let alone one.

Does anyone know how I can upload a pic? I've never done it. I feel dumb lol

 

[Chameleonator]

Stop everything you are doing!

Isolate both the chameleons. Why would you subject a healthy chameleon with one that is sick? Without a vet visit you don't know exactly what is wrong with the one you have taken in. Who knows he can have parasites that can be passed on to your girl. Besides you are stressing both of them by having them in the same cage.

 

[Carlton]

You can get a "squirter" at a pet shop or possibly a drug store. Try a small utility sprayer that can mist very gently (more of a rapid drip). Try an eye dropper. Use warmed water or the Pedialyte mix. You can get Pedialyte at grocery or drug stores if you have to go out anyway.

If he hasn't ever tried greens chance are he won't now either. He won't really eat much until he is more hydrated.

Find out what his former owner fed him and offer something familiar. But, sounds like he's pretty stressed and may not eat right now anyway due to the move. If he's eaten waxworms before, try them. They are soft and fatty and slightly sweet and many chams love them.

 

[skully23]

You can either attach files or set up an account with photobucket. Attaching files is the paper clip beside the smileys when you post. It will load it from your computer then you can attach it.
Idk how photobucket works

 

[Leilaskeeper]

Stop everything you are doing!

Isolate both the chameleons. Why would you subject a healthy chameleon with one that is sick? Without a vet visit you don't know exactly what is wrong with the one you have taken in. Who knows he can have parasites that can be passed on to your girl. Besides you are stressing both of them by having them in the same cage.

I appreciate your concerns. I don't have them in the same cage. Not sure if that's what you meant. Both are captive bred ... not sure if that guarantees they are both parasite free but I know my girl is healthy. They cannot see one another - I know they shouldn't be in the same enclosure as they are solitaire reptiles.

 

[pssh]

If you think he is really sick and wont make it without vet care, I strongly urge you to find him a home with someone who can afford vet bills. It's better he is alive in someone else's care than dead in yours (if you think it's that bad anyways.)

 

[Leilaskeeper]

You can get a "squirter" at a pet shop or possibly a drug store. Try a small utility sprayer that can mist very gently (more of a rapid drip). Try an eye dropper. Use warmed water or the Pedialyte mix. You can get Pedialyte at grocery or drug stores if you have to go out anyway.

If he hasn't ever tried greens chance are he won't now either. He won't really eat much until he is more hydrated.

Find out what his former owner fed him and offer something familiar. But, sounds like he's pretty stressed and may not eat right now anyway due to the move. If he's eaten waxworms before, try them. They are soft and fatty and slightly sweet and many chams love them.

They previous owner fed strictly crickets which I know is not that great. She has not been supplemented either. (I just found out it's a she) I'm a little upset by the mistreatment ... but I'm glad she's in my care now.

I took your advice and went to the drug store - I bought something similar to Pedialyte - it was a store brand but I'm sure it's sufficient nonetheless. The pedialyte bottle was HUGE compared to this other bottle which is still a lot. I also got a syringe free from the pharmacist

I'm really happy to say that when I got home, her eyes were no longer sunken. They were moving around great and the eyes are healthy looking. Also, the body looks quenched. She isn't wrinkled and the back where the tail is, I guess there is a bone at the base, which was sunken in before but now is thicker.

I squeezed some of the pedialyte on the top of her mouth and she took a bit. It's her bedtime. She closed her eyes while perched on my hand. I just laid her on a plant and she is now sleeping.

Sigh of relief .. I will keep this updated as the days go by. At least there was some progress with only a few hours. Tomorrow, I will search for a larger enclosure for her and continue hydration and attempt to feed. I have a few butterworms and silkworms for her .. and crickets if she shows interest.

Thanks again for your help!!

 

[Leilaskeeper]

If you think he is really sick and wont make it without vet care, I strongly urge you to find him a home with someone who can afford vet bills. It's better he is alive in someone else's care than dead in yours (if you think it's that bad anyways.)

I know .. you're right. I don't know who would want her. The person who had her before doesn't want her. I'm going to see what happens in the next few days and if her condition gets worse, I will talk with my hubby about bringing her to a vet. I've seen some improvement so far, but if she doesn't eat, it might be necessary.

Believe me, I don't want any harm to come to this cham. My heart is with this little girl and I'm giving her lots of attention. She's not that weak - she seems like a fighter. If her eyes are not sunken, it's a good sign right? ...

Thanks Kara

 

[Leilaskeeper]

I have more pics to come .. this is a before pic. Sorry for the quality. You can see the eye sunken in at least.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

Here are some before pics of the panther cham ...

 

[Leilaskeeper]

SO here are the pics of the enclosures...

The big one is obv. my girls .. and the little one is for the juvi for now. Before you point it out, I know .. I don't have a UVB light for the little one. I had the juvi hanging out in my girls enclosure for the evening. Tomorrow, I'm going to have my girl hang out in her tree by the bay window. She gets plenty of sunlight and I'm going to let the juvi hang out in my girls enclosure.

So complicated ... but tomorrow I'm going to my brother in laws store to see if he can help me out. Perhaps get a flexarium and a hood for a linear tube. I asked him before so hopefully it works out. If anything, I'll just purchase them.

Comments/suggestions welcome!

 

[pssh]

I think you have it backwards. If you have good enough weather you want the sick Cham getting the real sunlight! Real sunlight can do wonders in addition to long mistings for sick chams. Just remember that UVB doesn't passthrough glass or plastic so the window has to be open.

EDIT: I also would not use a substrate while it is in such a small cage. If she should go to the bottom she could get some in her eyes and that would just be a BIG mess. Better safe than sorry with a sick chameleon. She also needs more plants so she won't get stressed anymore than she already is. Stress kills.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

I think you have it backwards. If you have good enough weather you want the sick Cham getting the real sunlight! Real sunlight can do wonders in addition to long mistings for sick chams. Just remember that UVB doesn't passthrough glass or plastic so the window has to be open.

EDIT: I also would not use a substrate while it is in such a small cage. If she should go to the bottom she could get some in her eyes and that would just be a BIG mess. Better safe than sorry with a sick chaneleon.

Someone told me on here that organic soil is fine...? Is that true? It was a Senior member that has a reputation for solid knowledge. If it isn't .. well then, I'll take it out for sure. You mean the larger enclosure for my veiled?

As for sunlight, I'm in Canada (Toronto) so opening a window isn't a viable option although I wish it was hot here. Would the Juvi be okay in a ficus? Then again, UVB won't go through the glass so it's pointless. I guess my only option is to get the hood asap?

 

[Leilaskeeper]

I think you have it backwards. If you have good enough weather you want the sick Cham getting the real sunlight! Real sunlight can do wonders in addition to long mistings for sick chams. Just remember that UVB doesn't passthrough glass or plastic so the window has to be open.

EDIT: I also would not use a substrate while it is in such a small cage. If she should go to the bottom she could get some in her eyes and that would just be a BIG mess. Better safe than sorry with a sick chameleon. She also needs more plants so she won't get stressed anymore than she already is. Stress kills.

You mean the small enclosure right? I have two extra scheffleras in my bay window which I intend to use. The panther LOVES my veileds enclosure. She was climbing everywhere, especially on the schefflera. My intention is to get a larger enclosure and accomodate her well. Hoping tomorrow will be a successful day for me and for her.

 

[kinyonga]

You said that you don't have them in the same cage but that you might put the "sick" one in your female's cage while your female is in the ficus....you are likely putting your female in danger by doing this since you don't know what is wrong with the "sick" one.

About how old is this chameleon? Could it be that she is gravid and needs to lay eggs? If she's old enough to lay eggs, then I recommend that you put an opaque container (minimum size 10" deep, 10" long by 8" wide) filled with a moist washed playsand.

Here's a recipe for "bug juice"...
http://adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html

 

[Leilaskeeper]

You said that you don't have them in the same cage but that you might put the "sick" one in your female's cage while your female is in the ficus....you are likely putting your female in danger by doing this since you don't know what is wrong with the "sick" one.

About how old is this chameleon? Could it be that she is gravid and needs to lay eggs? If she's old enough to lay eggs, then I recommend that you put an opaque container (minimum size 10" deep, 10" long by 8" wide) filled with a moist washed playsand.

Here's a recipe for "bug juice"...
http://adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html

Good point. I think someone else mentioned something about this but when you put it like that, perhaps I should keep the panther out altogether. I hope I didn't do anything wrong...

This cham is a juvenile .. definitely under a year. I'm not sure of the exact age unfortunately but I could find out. I will double check to make sure eggs are not visible but honestly, she is SO skinny at the moment and I didn't see anything visual when I was watching her/holding her. I use organic soil for my veileds laying bin (I was told by another member this is sufficient as well) ... do juveniles lay eggs? When do they potentially start ..?

Thank you for the recipe - I can give it to her via syringe?