Strange poop, lazy grip and missing nails, help?

Nails

My boy Jake has been missing three nails on his two front feet for about a month and a half or so. I had him at the vet (for other reasons) shortly after he lost his nails. The vet said they would grow back. How long does it take?

Here are some pics I snapped of him the other day when I had him out.

You can see two of his nails missing on his front right foot.


This is another view showing all three missing nails.


And another.


Lazy Grip

Jake has also been showing a sort of lazy grip. He is strong when he needs to be. When he is walking on my hand or on a stick he doesn't seem to have much coordination. He isn't shaky but just doesn't seem sure of himself. I am not sure how to explain it. I think it might just be that he isn't sure of where he is. He doesn't come out as much as Fred so he isn't as familiar with my hands or the stick as Fred is.

I took some pics of him sitting on his vines. He doesn't grip them all the way around, he seems to just lay around. He sleeps vertically so he does exercise his grip at night.

Is he just comfy with how gravity works and knows he doesn't have to grip all the time? You can see how he isn't holding the vine with all of his feet in these two pics.




Poop.

Jake has been eating like crazy since his hunger strike ended a week or two ago. I noticed a strange poop on a leaf next to a normal looking poop. Either this is an albino poop or a very large urate. His poop has been pretty large lately. His urates have not seemed large, at least not like this. The urates all seem to be pretty white.




I was told it could be a sperm plug? Are they that big?

The white thing definitely has a sperm plug stuck to the left side of it but i really dont think the whole thing is the sperm plug. If it was, im sure you would have seen swelling and a possible infection in the area if it were allowed to become that big.

The toes that are missing the nails seem to be swollen. I suspect that there may be an infection there. (I'm not a vet, just basing this on experience/reading/etc.)

IMHO the missing nails will not grow back.

I would suggest taking him to another vet (one that knows chameleons) to get the toes checked out. If they are left and it is an infection it could very likely spread. Infected toes need to have the "pus" cleaned out and the chameleon needs to be put on an antibiotic.

kinyonga said:

The toes that are missing the nails seem to be swollen. I suspect that there may be an infection there. (I'm not a vet, just basing this on experience/reading/etc.)

IMHO the missing nails will not grow back.

I would suggest taking him to another vet (one that knows chameleons) to get the toes checked out. If they are left and it is an infection it could very likely spread. Infected toes need to have the "pus" cleaned out and the chameleon needs to be put on an antibiotic.

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Maybe this could explain why he doesn't like to grip very hard onto fingers and branches.

His toes have been the way you see them in the pictures for a while. If they were infected or swollen with puss would they continue to swell?

I will look for another vet in the area. I can't really afford a visit right now. but will look into it.

Anyone else have some more input?

Does he use his outside fingers to grip the aluminum screen inside the cage?
Constant rubbing on the aluminum will wear them.

Justin Carl said:

Does he use his outside fingers to grip the aluminum screen inside the cage?
Constant rubbing on the aluminum will wear them.

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He doesn't climb the screen as much (if at all). After he had pulled them out on the screen he would still climb the walls. As of late he does not climb the walls. In the last couple of weeks he has not been as active as he was during and just before his hunger strike.

You said..."Maybe this could explain why he doesn't like to grip very hard onto fingers and branches"...could be. His toes could be painful and the swelling could keep them from bending enough to grip well.

You said..."His toes have been the way you see them in the pictures for a while. If they were infected or swollen with puss would they continue to swell?"...usually...but it can be quite slow. Other times they can swell quite quickly.

You also said..." In the last couple of weeks he has not been as active as he was during and just before his hunger strike"...maybe this has something to do with the toes too?

One of mine lost his nail a while back, almost over a year ago. After a year he has developed a very minimal amount of nail, but I don't I think that if will ever develop fully again.
As a preventative, I saw a lot of people on the forum do it, so I lined all my cages with plastic mesh, so they grab on to that instead of the screen:

Do you have some sort of medicated creme that you could put on the missing nails? Do they look swollen and infected like they are filled with puss? If so could you attempt to lance it yourself? Vega never needed any intense treatment for his, I just put Zymox on it for a few days to be safe.
Good luck with Jake. I really like the last picture of him peeping out from behind the vine.

I ditto everything that Kinyonga said...

If you lance the toes as was suggested and clean it out you still won't know what the bacteria is that is involved and the chameleon will still need to be put on antibiotics IMHO.

And what about the pain you will be causing as you cut it and clean it out??

kinyonga said:

If you lance the toes as was suggested and clean it out you still won't know what the bacteria is that is involved and the chameleon will still need to be put on antibiotics IMHO.

And what about the pain you will be causing as you cut it and clean it out??

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Do you think it would be ok to give him Baytril for the time being since I can't take him to the vet right now due to finances? Would it help prevent spread of an infection?

I wouldn't give him any antibiotics without consulting a vet first. At this point you don't even know if it is infected. I personally find it hard to see if the toes are actually swollen or if that's just the angle of the photo.
Compare the nailless toes to the normal ones and see if you can see a difference in thickness of the toes.

Cyrus lost several nails on front feet from screen climbing and they have not grown back and doubt they ever will. He just has little stubs. On Cy, I used betadine soaks and Silver Sulfadiazine cream. His never were infected, but they were a bit red and vet recommended using it "just in case" as they were obviously sore.

As for the grip, they don't always grip tight all the time if they are just hanging out. Cyrus definitely just rests a foot or two and will often just let one hang. IF he isn't falling (is he?) I wouldn't worry about it.

just my 2 cents...

my cham has lost the same two nails on each of his back feet. they also look like his do in the pictures. when i was first reading this i was wondering if the toes just get a little larger then the others due to getting their nail ripped out, but as you guys mentioned it shouldn’t be swollen?
it doesn’t look massive it is just a little bit larger then the other toe. mine look exactly like his does. when that first happened i thought they were infected so i soaked them (tried to soak them, i cannot soak a chams foot for some reason), and applied betadyne(sp?) solution on it. (the way i got to do It was let him sit on the top of the door, and with a q-tip put a drop on his toe and just wait then do again.) after like two weeks with nothing changing i stopped because i thought that’s just how they look after you rip a nail out.

should it look like all the other toes with nails? same size and diameter just with no nail?
can someone who has a cham with a missing toe post a picture of what their healthy toe looks like so we have a reference?

also my cham doesn’t grab tightly on my hand unless he is about to fall off. i was worried about this like a week ago. i figure he thinks he is safe on your hand or stick, and doesn’t need to hold on for dear life. if you turn him upside down im sure he will grip like hell.

here are some old pics of mine.

lele said:

Cyrus lost several nails on front feet from screen climbing and they have not grown back and doubt they ever will. He just has little stubs. On Cy, I used betadine soaks and Silver Sulfadiazine cream. His never were infected, but they were a bit red and vet recommended using it "just in case" as they were obviously sore.

As for the grip, they don't always grip tight all the time if they are just hanging out. Cyrus definitely just rests a foot or two and will often just let one hang. IF he isn't falling (is he?) I wouldn't worry about it.

just my 2 cents...

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He has never fallen (that I have seen.) I just see him laying around like a lazy pig.

I am starting to feel some concern for his toes. The toes have not changed since the vet saw them as far as size. The tips where the nail once was is dark.. or black, just a little dot.

When the vet gave me Baytril he said it was safe to use when you aren't sure about an infection. He said it is not a harsh drug that harms the cham, but is effective. Maybe he is nuts?

I just did a quick run thru of recent pics but since I wasn't taking pics of just his toes they are not very clear. he is asleep right now so if no one comes thru with a better one I'll take some for you tomorrow. here is one, not very clear, but should give you an idea

lele said:

I just did a quick run thru of recent pics but since I wasn't taking pics of just his toes they are not very clear. he is asleep right now so if no one comes thru with a better one I'll take some for you tomorrow. here is one, not very clear, but should give you an idea

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thank you. after this i went crazy over looking at his toes. i bet he thought i was crazy, but i sort of pinched his toe and he didnt do anything what so ever.
if it hurt him he would move or puff up right?
now that i really look at it it is only slightly larger.
do infections hurt? if you press on it they could feel pain?

I think it was caused my the screen cage, I've seen inexperienced keepers roughly pull a chameleon from its cage (that was on the screen) and rip their nails off. If it gets infected (puffy and or start to bleed/puss) I would put some neosporin, teramicin or betadine solution on it. These are all simple antibiotics. If it gets worse consult a Vet or a second opinion. Thats what i think.
-Mike

So I took Jake to see Tom Greek. I recommend him to anyone in the area. He let me pick his brain for a good 15-20 minutes. Which is way longer than my other vet experiences. He told me they seem a bit swollen and that putting him back on baytril for 10-14 days until the swelling (the small amount) is gone.

It was worth the $59.23 (I just think its funny how they throw in the 23 cents.... why not just round it to $60.00 oh well.)

OK So its been just over a month since I took Jake to see Tom Greek. After the visit I gave Jake Baytril for 14 days straight. I didn't notice much of a change in his toes. He seemed to be doing just fine. He hasn't been eating as much lately. I have been feeding him mostly crickets because he isn't into the Dubia as much as he used to be. I was out of town Thursday-Sunday and was not able to feed Fred or Jake. I left them with plenty of crickets in their cups. It seems Fred ate all of his crickets but Jake didn't seem too hungry. I took Jake out to inspect him . His toes did not look so good. He had shed half of his foot (the side with the missing claws). I took some pics. If ya have any ideas please let me know. I am going to put some cream on his toes and was thinking I should start up with the Baytril again. When I was out of town this weekend I snatched some small syringes' with needles from my GF's family. They use them for their sick cat and had a bunch in a bag unused. I will use them to inject worms with Baytril so I don't stress Jake out by forcing him to open his mouth for his Baytril.

Here are my pics from today. He seemed very calm while i examined him. He didn't fight me one bit.



You can see how his skin is white under his shed.


It doesn't look more swollen, but just looks bad.


He was so used to me holding his foot he just stayed that way and didn't move. As you can see the top of his foot is normal looking.


After I had him outside and took these pics I gave him a 20 minute shower. He didn't seem to like it that much at first but he started drinking and washing his eyes out. After a while he started to get kinda fidgety and I took that as 'I'm done now!" I did notice that during the shower he didn't like me touching his foot.