My Ambanja
- Thread starter Paul R
- Start date
chameleonlover
New Member
beautifull ambanja , and he is not so little anymore 
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Paul,
He's healthy, but I think you've been snookered. He appears to be of mixed-locale.
He's healthy, but I think you've been snookered. He appears to be of mixed-locale.
greeneyes78
New Member
He's beautiful!
chameleonneeds
Avid Member
Serious????
I know Paul and he bought this ambanja from the only breeder in SA.
He only has a Ambanja and female, and a Tamatave pair the male does not breed but the female has been bred with an ambanja I think but that clutch has not hatched.
What mix could he be?
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Chameleon Needs
As to what critters could have conspired to produce this, I'm a bit far away to be able to offer insight, but clearly the milkman, or postman, snuck in on this one. I could say that it has more characteristics of a Nosy Be, but even then it is not clean. This animal would not rate classification as any distinct locale that I am aware of. It is clearly not pedigree Ambanja. The coloration of the head and forward torso would never pass the Ambanja stink test.
I agree 100% that every locale has its range of colors, like any bell curve. Unfortunately, hybrids abound in this business. Many are accidental, created by breeding mis-identified females (or deliberately mislabeled females). So it goes.
As to what critters could have conspired to produce this, I'm a bit far away to be able to offer insight, but clearly the milkman, or postman, snuck in on this one. I could say that it has more characteristics of a Nosy Be, but even then it is not clean. This animal would not rate classification as any distinct locale that I am aware of. It is clearly not pedigree Ambanja. The coloration of the head and forward torso would never pass the Ambanja stink test.
I agree 100% that every locale has its range of colors, like any bell curve. Unfortunately, hybrids abound in this business. Many are accidental, created by breeding mis-identified females (or deliberately mislabeled females). So it goes.
Thats interesting! I know for a fact that his lines are from Ambanja as the only stock in South Africa was smuggled from Ambanja. Here in S.A. we only get Ambanja on the market. He is great looking and i know he shows "Rare" colours for his locale but i have seen his brothers and there is a huge amount of variation in that single clutch.
The breeder that sold him to me didnt really believe me when i said he is turning blue with red odd patches and lines. He goes a perfect yellow on the back when he is hot and searches for shade.
Thanks for your input guys!!! Really appreciate the comment on the sexy boy!!
These are the best pics!!! you should see the other - looks like a furry chameleon they so out of focus. I am clearly no photographer
He is only 5 months and already bobbing his head to the ladies in the other flexariums
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
And "smugglers" are to be trusted?
Paul, with all due respect, you are relying on the "facts" that are assumptions at best, as you are having to take the word of others. Just the statement that you "only get Ambanja on the market" defies what many of us who are involved in the legal export know about how things come out of Madagascar. Not even the legal exporters, much less the "smugglers", are so guaranteed meticulous in what they send. If you get what you are supposed to 75% of the time you are to count your blessings.
Maybe here in the States enough serious folks in the market have been had enough times by mislabeled females, and even males now, to know that all too often the word of many sellers isn't worth the paper its written on.
So, despite all the assurances, the boat that only leaves the Ambanja dock, etc., you have a mixed locale critter. Very healthy, etc., but not what it was supposed to be.
chameleonneeds
Avid Member
And "smugglers" are to be trusted?
Paul, with all due respect, you are relying on the "facts" that are assumptions at best, as you are having to take the word of others. Just the statement that you "only get Ambanja on the market" defies what many of us who are involved in the legal export know about how things come out of Madagascar. Not even the legal exporters, much less the "smugglers", are so guaranteed meticulous in what they send. If you get what you are supposed to 75% of the time you are to count your blessings.
Maybe here in the States enough serious folks in the market have been had enough times by mislabeled females, and even males now, to know that all too often the word of many sellers isn't worth the paper its written on.
So, despite all the assurances, the boat that only leaves the Ambanja dock, etc., you have a mixed locale critter. Very healthy, etc., but not what it was supposed to be.
It wasnt the breeder who smuggled them but someone at a petshop, that is how he got Ambanjas, Tamatave, Fischers, Jacksons, Werners and I think there are a few others...
I think in this case it is the mother that could be a nosy be or a mix breed of nosy be.
Can you tell the difference between panther females?
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
It is a far less exact science, and in the end, is just a smidgeon above guesswork if there is no other credible information known or provided relating to the animal, the shipment, the supplier, etc. There are tendencies, but even to be 70% right is to be 30% wrong. Here in the States, where imports have been a regular part of the supply of bloodlines from the beginning, deliberate deception has always been a cost of doing business. Many of us have raised a few Kalambilobes
, an inside joke to many. Add to it honest mistakes, and at times I would estimate that up to a third of the animals on the market have some mixed blood in them. You can go to "breeder" sites right now and see photos of breeders that are claimed to be pedigree that clearly are not, with blue-bar red-background Ambilobe being the most abused variation. Real ones do exist, but it is also the most faked variation IMMHO. Beautiful animals certainly, but Locale mutts.
chameleonneeds
Avid Member
Hey chameleoncompany google sa-chameleons, check out the gallery and you will see the ambanja father.
See how his offspring looks totally different to what he is, all the babies look different in colour as Paul said, while you are on there check all the galleries of Panthers and there will be one with the Juvi panther males they all look different...
See how his offspring looks totally different to what he is, all the babies look different in colour as Paul said, while you are on there check all the galleries of Panthers and there will be one with the Juvi panther males they all look different...
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Looking "different" is not a very precise way to measure, as we all are aware of variations (differences) within each Locale.
Whether the sire looked like an Ambanja or not is probably the least likely place where mixed blood crept into this.
I have often recommended to folks, as they look at an animal purported to be of this Locale or that, and consider purchasing it, that if you can anticipate having to spend an inordinate amount of time convincing folks that it is what it does not look like, at least get a lower price.
"I was born at night, just not last night."
Whether the sire looked like an Ambanja or not is probably the least likely place where mixed blood crept into this.
I have often recommended to folks, as they look at an animal purported to be of this Locale or that, and consider purchasing it, that if you can anticipate having to spend an inordinate amount of time convincing folks that it is what it does not look like, at least get a lower price.
"I was born at night, just not last night."
viaje
New Member
*ahem* I'm a little surprised by all of you!
Paul came on here and was hoping for people to like his chameleon, which he obviously does- and I for one think he couldn't be any more stunning!
We weren't being asked about his locale, and I highly doubt anything you say could make him think any differently about his handsome boy- so why try to convince him of anything? So you can be right? So you could be the one to catch the 'mutt'? Sure, his colors are peculiar- and once in a while people slip up, but it would have been nice if one person could have mentioned it, and then we could have moved on- several posts were not necessary.
I thought it was very rude of all of you.
@Paul R- Is he still young? I hope to see more pictures, if that red gets any brighter he'll be one heck of a looker someday!
Paul came on here and was hoping for people to like his chameleon, which he obviously does- and I for one think he couldn't be any more stunning!
We weren't being asked about his locale, and I highly doubt anything you say could make him think any differently about his handsome boy- so why try to convince him of anything? So you can be right? So you could be the one to catch the 'mutt'? Sure, his colors are peculiar- and once in a while people slip up, but it would have been nice if one person could have mentioned it, and then we could have moved on- several posts were not necessary.
I thought it was very rude of all of you.
@Paul R- Is he still young? I hope to see more pictures, if that red gets any brighter he'll be one heck of a looker someday!
