Zoomed's latest creation...

[eisentrauti]

Have I ever said sth that the enclosures for the chams shouldn't dry out sometimes ? There are no rooms which have nearly 0%, even when you live in the Sahara.
No chameleon needs a hole day misting and because of that the plants won't die. They just could die because the water in the ground couldn't flow away, not because they are misted 5-6 times per day or more

 

[warpdrive]

Have I ever said sth that the enclosures for the chams shouldn't dry out sometimes ? There are no rooms which have nearly 0%, even when you live in the Sahara.
No chameleon needs a hole day misting and because of that the plants won't die. They just could die because the water in the ground couldn't flow away, not because they are misted 5-6 times per day or more

sadly, I could not disagree with you more with everything you've just said.

as for room humidity, my humidity outside where I live has no more then 10%-20% outside for months at a time.
dryer zones will have far lower humidity.
areas such as AZ where it can be as low as 10% or less at times, right here in the USA, disagrees with your thoughts.

you also can't have it both ways...
you can't mist to help with humidity and not mist to help with plants.
you have to do one or the other.

let me talk about me...
my room is 20% humidity for 5 months a year.
my baby cage is too small to add more then 2 planted pots.
the added plants help make my humidity in that baby cage 40% when dry.
misting helps alot, but after an hour or two my humidity is 40% again.

if I want my humidity to be at least 50% durring the 12 hours that I'm not misting at night...how do I help my humidity levels stay at 50% or more, while not misting enough durring the day and night without a humidifier?

just anser my last question without giving me an anser that will kill my real plants.
then tell me what to do for a chameleon that needs 80% humidity, 24 hours a day.
go ahead, I dare you.

Harry

 

[summoner12]

totaly agree with you on this one.
I would even add that I'll bet you wont be able to adjust the output of mist that it provides, thus it will give off too much or too little humidity.

just my two cents

Harry

yeah I bet your right about the adjustment lol

 

[eisentrauti]

Just make an drainage. A well planted cage has always a higher humidity than the room where it stands. In addition use tanks with smaller screen parts.
Your humidity will rise and your plants won't die. Do you understand it now ?

 

[warpdrive]

Just make an drainage. A well planted cage has always a higher humidity than the room where it stands. In addition use tanks with smaller screen parts.
Your humidity will rise and your plants won't die. Do you understand it now ?

no.

explain how to do so with what I have right now.
give details, not closed minded thoughts, back by no facts.
lets also remember that my room humidity is low only for 5 months a year, the rest of the time it can be as high as 60%

I'm giving you enough of the facts to work with, so you have nothing else needed.
tell me again how my cage humidity will be what my chams need without a humidifier while using what I use right now.
try again.

Harry

 

[eisentrauti]

Start thinking yourself ...
If you won't understand it I don't need to waste my time. Hopefully you find sb with a full bag of patience to explain you all this stuff
You have your chameleon for 3? months now, maybe I'm a bit more experienced and you could believe the things which I write

 

[Sang]

all i know is, this thing is a f'n chud of a product, it may work, it may not, here in arizona with the summer temps, i had a 8% humidity outside yesterday and 109F .

inside my average humidity is about 39% , inside my cages is about 50% and spikes to 90%

 

[warpdrive]

Start thinking yourself ...
If you won't understand it I don't need to waste my time. Hopefully you find sb with a full bag of patience to explain you all this stuff
You have your chameleon for 3? months now, maybe I'm a bit more experienced and you could believe the things which I write

fact, my room is 20% humidity right now.
fact, my cage without a room humidifier in use is only 40% when dry.
fact, I am doing everything you said and even more...my cage without a room humidifier is still only 40%.
fact, I totaly understand what you are saying...BUT WISHFULL THINKING WONT GET MY CAGE HUMIDITY TO 50%, never mind 80% for my next cham.

deal with the facts, not some wishfull thinking. please.

thank you for your time,
Harry

 

[eisentrauti]

Fact:
- put in more plants
- don't use screen cages
I bet it works !

 

[warpdrive]

Fact:
- put in more plants
- don't use screen cages
I bet it works !

I agree, sadly, that's not an option.
I can't add more plants, cage is too small as it's a baby cage.
glass would be fine in the winter, but once the summer months are here my humidity will be too high.

so try again.

Harry

 

[summoner12]

Warpdrive, are you pointing a humidifier into the cage? Can you cover two sides of even three sides of the cage with plastic?

 

[warpdrive]

Warpdrive, are you pointing a humidifier into the cage? Can you cover two sides of even three sides of the cage with plastic?

I'm using a room humidifier with great results...just near the cage, but not pointing it into the gage.
the thought of NOT using one as the person I'm bickering with is clearly not a reasonable choice.

my cage humidity is stable at 50%-60% when the cage is fully dry. I even breath better and can now even blow my nose when I please, not just after a shower.
I'll bet my skin is even less dry.

a simple room humidifier can do wonders for someone with an open mind to try one...they can even be used with PVC pipe to directly spill in all that mist directly into the cage.

then again, as was pointed out...I only have 3 months worth of knowing nothing about chameleons, so what do I know...?
what's funny is that person has an open mind to glass, but fake plants and humidifiers should be baned?

anyway bro, thanks for the thought. I'm fine, and have no humidity problems since using a humidifier.

Harry

 

[Chamero]

There is more than one way to skin a cat!

You two basically have the same weather patterns, so you guys are pretty much dealing with the same problems...

Warpdrive-
A glass tank would be possible and help during winter, but you would need some sort of fan during summer to circulate air, thus lowering humidity.

Eisentrauti-
A screen cage with a humidifier also works, as you are providing the addition during winter, rather than summer. Winter would have the suplemental humidity while summer would have the natural 50%+ humidity.

Both you are right until proven otherwise...

 

[blackbetty]

Wow..First off, Yes I have less flavor but I definately dont have too much $$..I didnt even see how much they were asking.>just said it would be cool to watch my frogs scale a volcano..

Secondly, its rare that people use Glass tanks int he US. Its been proven as a high stress factor. thats our choice, therefore we do what we need to to make up for the lack of moisture.

Thirdly, Yes plants that get overwatered without proper drainage die. Its called root rot and it smells like death that has been baked in the oven at 750 degrees for 2.75 days straight and then thrown in the microwave on high for 95 minutes. (those are approximate as I really wouldnt know..) it smells worse than anything.. EVER.. Its ones choice to use fake or live. WHO CARES? Your chams are happy one way and healthy, his another.. to each their own. There is ALWAYS going to be debate in the animal kingdom until the animals develop and English vocabulary and tell us what they want themselves! I SAID GOOD DAY!

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

WOW , you could get tired reading all this... I lost track at one point and forgot what everyone was talking about.

I think in there I saw ones who disagreed agree then .... I have no idea what happened.

Anyway here is my $.02

While I think the object could work and be somewhat beneficial , I believe the use of this "Volcano" is something that appeals to the Keepers needs more than the chameleons. Isn't even the possibility of stress something to try to avoid? At only the expense of the owner not thinking it looks cooler with the volcano in it?

True,

"There is ALWAYS going to be debate in the animal kingdom until the animals develop and English vocabulary and tell us what they want themselves".

Until then , I would say it is our responsibility to replicate the environment they have lived and evolved in. Not add an erupting volcano because the owner think it looks cool. Nature didn't get it wrong. They are not dieing to get out of Madagascar or Tanzania.

I feel an external humidifier... aka a box would be better

even better than that more plants. Plants can be easily added or removed to adjust.

Increase mistings. It works. After a mist if it doesn't reach 90-100% humidity, you did not mist enough.

oh and nothing is wrong with a glass tank if it is setup properly

Put human emotion aside , it makes a lot of sense that way.

 

[jojackson]

but I find it silly that members here are so "fixed" on only one solution to problems or husbandry, with no leway or an open mind to other ideas.

humidifiers are the only way without killing plants by misting (on and off) for 24 hours a day.

You dont see any inconsistancy with the above two statements Harry?

then tell me what to do for a chameleon that needs 80% humidity, 24 hours a day.

Which species requires such high humidity 24/7 ?

I think if such humidifiers were simply not avail, you would find other methods Harry. Having raised Reptiles for about 25yrs now,
I can tell you such products were not always avail and keepers simply became inventive to get around such issues!
Personally I try not to rely on devices. Ive seen keepers try to get things perfect by having cages bristling with tecknology and fail miserably, likewise Ive seen and known some keeping alledgedly difficult species in top health with little or no such conveniences.

If it works for you, then by all means buy it. What would you do if there were a 3 day power outage?

 

[ChamNovice]

What would you do if there were a 3 day power outage?

I actually started a thread posing this very question.



This product has actually been around for quite a while now, at least 2 years, maybe longer. It does not vibrate. It creates a lot of "fog" for a short period, Those who mentioned it before were correct in saying it requires frequent filling. Like Black Betty had said, I used it in a PDF enclosure back when I had them. It was on a timer for 5 min. at a time, created a nice mist on the plants too with the amount of fog it produced. Yes it looks pretty cheesy, but it is effective for maintaining humidity. The red from the LED just lights up the fog at the top of the volcano, not much else, it is pretty pointless other than looks. The base is also hollow giving the animals a cave to hide in if they want.
You all can mock me if you please, but the product was very effective for me in the situation I used it.

 

[warpdrive]

JJ,

you can pull 1 liners from my replys all day if you want to try to make a point.
yet no, I don't agree that I'm being closed minded to any ideas on how to get a requierment done.
I just see both the pros and the cons, and if the cons outwaigh the pros then I have a hard time doing such a thing.

let's just say that I've kept lots of fish and animals my whole life.
I'm also quite aware of how to take care of plants as well.
in no way am I ever going to say I'm some type of expert, but I'm no dummy as well.

if misting alone will help with humidity, I see nothing wrong with such a cure.
yet if that alone doesn't help enough, then other means to the solution should be looked for.

personaly, I don't have problems with "glass" enclosures...unlike some members in this forum.
would it be a "smart" choice for me? well due to the costs of buying or building such an enclosure here in the states, not realy.
I would rather use plastic or wood to help keep in the humidity if it was needed that badly.

as for humidifiers, they have been around for longer then I've been alive, and I'm 42...we are not talking cell phones here buddy, or MTV.
the thought that humidifiers are a bad thing to use is silly to me.
or the use of fake plants if they are needed for what ever reason.
let's also not forget that the lights we use for our little guys and gals are about as fake as can be, yet we use them without a second thought.

if you reread my replys once again, you'll see that I'm quite open to ideas to get any solution done that is needed.
just that there are limits or down sides to some solutions.

what I found funny here in this thread was that people here were knocking a product with out ever having tested it out.
they weren't saying the product was bad because it didn't or couldn't do the job it was intended to do, but because it looked like a volcano...to me, that's silly and closed minded.

what if it looked like a rock, a plant, or just a silly "box" shaped product, would it be ok then?
heck, we put flower pots in our enclosures, and the last time I checked, there were no flower pots in the wild. no feeding cups as well.

now I'll agree that is is marketed towards kids, and not towards us.
I'll have a big cry for you and the others here because of that. OK?

my humidifier in my living room also looks like a white and blue colored volcano if you squint your eyes. should I remove it because it doesn't look like a TV, thus it looks unnatural for a typical living room?

since I've started this debate, we've seen at least one or two people that have used this product.
again, maybe it's not the best solution, but it seems to work.

---------------------

so, to anser a question about humidity if I had to go 3 days with a "blackout"...

well, since this could well happen in the summer, I'd be ok.
outside humidity here in the NYC area is around 65%-85% humidity on a normal sunny day.
but lets make it hard and say this happened in the winter time.

I have lots of options to choose from:
extra mistings.
rapping my cage with plastic on the sides and back.
boiling pots of water and bringing said pots near the cage (I have a gas stove, so in a blackout I would still have a working stove)...the steem from the water will raise the humidity levels around them.

I'm sure there are other ways to help in a blackout, but that's what I just came up with while sitting here and typing this reply.

but there is a big difference between a temporary problem, and a permenant one.
solutions for permanant problems need to not only be funtionable but be reasonable for both the owner and the pet...and let's not forget plants too.

let's also not forget that in the wild, everything from temps and humidity is never constant.
so short periods of time when your temps/humidity are a drop low or high is no big deal. again, as long as the time is short.


anyway, it's hard to argue that I'm not closed minded when you realy didn't prove otherwise, regardless of the "cherry picked", out of context quotes.

you're such a bad chameleon JJ.

Harry

 

[jojackson]

Your preaching to the wrong person Harry

Didnt I say

I think its entirely superfluous!
This is my personal opinion on such products.

and

In the eye of the beholder I guess Harry. In my eyes its cheap commercialism, 'lets come up with up with a new gadget, or rather a new take on an existing one, sales have dropped".

and

I just think the manufacture of novelty items for the sake of it is a waste of energy, better spent on something more useful.
10 million plastic volcanoe humidifiers will still be sitting in landfills undegraded hundreds of years from now. The last thing the earth needs is more trash!
Yes, the same could said of many things, asthetics dont really come into it.

and Finally..

If it works for you, then by all means buy it.

If you beleive the things are useful, good for you, have at it!
What do you want from me? The thread was posted to gauge reactions to the product, Not to 'road test' it, otherwise it would have been called 'who uses this product, Is it good" or some such.

People voiced their opinions for and against. You chose to take exception to peoples opinions, because in your opinion, their opinions were misinformed.
Anyone would think you personally designed the silly bloody thing. Why the hell do you care?

You are equally welcome to your opinion, and you have made your point about the irrelevance of its appearance several times now!
People can read.

You could have saved typing so much by simply saying, 'In my opinion they can be useful despite appearances'.

Especially after you claimed

not trying to argue, but ...

Educating and informing is welcome, but telling people their opinions are wrong, is just silly. Opinions are not wrong, they are simply opinions and no more than that, regardless how they are formed. An opinion is not a statement of fact, ever.

Theres a saying

'opinions are like A###oles, everybody has one'

 

[eisentrauti]

Just let him write. It seems like as if he has too much time...