Young cham eyes closed and dehydrated

[NHenn]

Gotcha. Will try a regular 40 watt incandescent bulb. Nick, if you're reading this, I am very interested in your offer. I still would like to take Avi to the vet as he has experience with Veileds, but I believe your help would be invaluable. I trust in your chameleon husbandry as your panther and carpet chams are gorgeous. Basically, what I'm saying is I would like to try and have the best of both worlds. I at least would like to see if the vet can figure something out or have tests and x-rays done to try and rule out something, anything. And if you're still willing, I would love for you to work with Avi. Above all else, I want what is best for my darling little cham. I see things from your side of the fence about not stressing him out. If at all possible, when I get back from the vet, I'd love to give you a call and talk about my little cham, possibly have you come here to check his enclosure and more than likely take him with you to see if you can nurse him back to health, because I'll be honest, with his eyes closed and having to force feed him with as little as he is, it's nerve wracking. It's heartbreaking to see my little boy like this and it's affecting my health as well. I've lost 10 lbs. from neglecting to eat because I'm scouring the internet and YouTube videos for something, anything that would allow me to have a deeper understanding of what's hurting Avi. Everyone on this forum has been absolutely wonderful, and I appreciate it. I firmly believe that with help, this story can have a happy ending.

Yes that sounds like a plan. Why don't you try to give me a call after your vet appointment today and we can discuss some things over the phone about your setup and everything else. In the meantime, would you be able to send me some more pictures of Avi's setup so I have a better understanding of everything in his current environment. Hang in here, we will all try our best to help little Avi out!

 

[jannb]

Yes that sounds like a plan. Why don't you try to give me a call after your vet appointment today and we can discuss some things over the phone about your setup and everything else. In the meantime, would you be able to send me some more pictures of Avi's setup so I have a better understanding of everything in his current environment. Hang in here, we will all try our best to help little Avi out!

Nick, you are one awesome human being! I hope to someday get to meet you and your lovely wife Amanda.

Andy, I am hoping the best for your little man. Nick has allot of experience with babies and you are lucky to have him willing to help.

 

[TattooedGZus]

Will try to get some pics of his cage up. Right now, his set up isn't really tiered anymore. I panicked when kinyonga suggested his tall plant wasn't a dracena and called my wife to have her remove it just to be safe. Now there is a hibiscus plant that takes up most of the space and his favorite climbing vine elevated a bit above it. He still has a basking area with a favorable temp and more foliage to blend and use for cover. At least this way, I'm certain the plant isn't irritating his eyes and being the root cause of the problem. It also provides more leaves for water drops to accumulate from misting, so I'm hoping his natural responses will trigger and he'll lap up some aqua.

 

[jannb]

Check out this older thread when you get a chance. I had a tiny premmie veiled baby named Elly and the lights bothered her yes and she would keep them closed when under the lights. I had to keep her outside in the shade with temps around 80 in the daytime to get her to open her eyes and eat. https://www.chameleonforums.com/baby-chameleon-sleeping-during-day-71194/
Here's another good one. https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-baby-cham-keeps-getting-worst-128062/

 

[TattooedGZus]

Here's a few pics of his cage. Sorry about the lighting and picture quality. Again this was a last second switch.

 

[TattooedGZus]

Another quick question. I have a 60 watt nighttime heat bulb. It emits heat, no light. Anyone think it's worth a shot?

 

[jannb]

He want need a heat light at night unless the temps drop below 68. Some keepers even let them drop lower on babies.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Andy,

I live in Reading PA, would you be willing to bring him to me for a week or so stay and see if I can't help him out? We could go over your current setup, you could check out some of my setups for ideas and I can give it my best shot at turning his health around. I can't guarantee anything but I know being in a perfect environment for him will be his best chance at fixing whatever the issues are.

Nick, what a kind and generous offer!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I still would like to take Avi to the vet as he has experience with Veileds, but I believe your help would be invaluable.

Nick makes a very good point. Taking an animal to a vet is not without risk and the smaller the animal the less treatment options the vet has.

I just had a chameleon bleed out and die after the vet nicked a vein/artery in the neck while giving it subcutaneous fluids and Vitamin B to get it over a slight decline that was caused by a bad reaction to the steroids in a topical ointment (Panalog) that my vet prescribed for a toenail issue caused by a screen cage. What really ticks me off is the fluids were not really necessary--we were just giving her a boost to help her flush out her system. She's dead and shouldn't be. It didn't help that on necropsy, she was full of ripe ovum waiting to be fertilized.

The other point is that vets don't really get a very good picture of a chameleon's condition during an exam unless they are critically ill with something obvious.

I hope you take Nick up on his offer. It is a very kind and generous.

 

[TattooedGZus]

Jann, I meant to try using the bulb during the day instead of the 60w blue bulb. At the moment, I don't have any lights on. Trying your advice to see if light is part of the problem.

 

[jannb]

Jann, I meant to try using the bulb during the day instead of the 60w blue bulb. At the moment, I don't have any lights on. Trying your advice to see if light is part of the problem.

What's them temp in the cage right now with no lights? Is the cage in a well lit room? If it's dark they think it's nighttime and go to sleep. If it's a warm room the cage is in I would worry more about light than heat. If your weather permits outside time, without over heating would be the best thing in the world for him.

 

[NHenn]

Jann, I meant to try using the bulb during the day instead of the 60w blue bulb. At the moment, I don't have any lights on. Trying your advice to see if light is part of the problem.

I don't know if those fixtures can turn each bulb on and off but I would turn on the heat but turn off the uvb coil bulb as the heat bulb shouldn't affect him negatively.

As for the UVB, he will be fine without it for a a bit but I do have an older T8 fixture I don't mind letting you have to replace his coil bulb if you want. The T8 fixtures provide a better light wave pattern within the cage and won't cause any eye issues.

 

[TattooedGZus]

Just got back from the vet, and it was encouraging. While Avi is a little dehydrated, he is still in overall good shape. His eyes show no outward sign of infection. His breathing is good and not labored. Now as a precaution, since he is so tiny and the exam possibilities were limited, he was prescribed an antibiotic, Bactrin. 1 drop for the next 10 days. His mouth exam went well, no signs of mouth rot and coloration is good. So there's a little bit of relief. Still need to get his eyes open and eating and drinking normally before I will be totally relieved. The vet recommended trying something, and wanted opinions before considering it. A 50/50 mix of water and Gatorade. Both to spray and to drink. Any thoughts?

 

[MarieMc44]

2 weeks ago today, I bought our young veiled cham, Avi (short for Avecado) from PetCo. He is in a Reptibreeze enclosure, 16x16x30. We are using a 60 W Daylight blue Reptile bulb and a Reptisun 5.0 UVB bulb. He has a live Dracearna plant in his enclosure along with some heat treated branches and vines for perching and climbing. He is misted 6-8 times a day for a few minutes each time. He WAS averaging 8-10 small crickets dusted with Reptical Calcium without D3 each day and has only had one small dusting of food with calcium with D3. Also 1 dusting of Reptivite on one of his meals. Mealworms or waxworms as occasional treat. Humidity of his cage has been consistent at 75-80%. Basking area is around 80-85 degrees with other areas being a few degrees lower down to around 70 degrees. Was taking him outside for a few hours of natural sunlight, crawling on hisbiscus plants that had been thoroughly washed, resoiled with organic topsoil and stones placed onto the soil. Now to my problem....This past Monday, 9/7/15, I had Avi outside for a few hours of natural sun. Part of the plant in the sun, part in shade to allow for him to cool off if he was too warm. When I took him in, he went into his cage like always, I misted him, and closed the door to give him some quiet time. When I checked on him around 5:30 P.M., his eyes were shut and he was sleeping. Being a first time cham owner, I thought maybe he had a little to much exertion for the day. The following few days, he has been deteriorating bit by bit. He won't eat, he won't drink, he won't open his eyes. Before anyone condemns me, he has a vet appointment tomorrow morning at 11 A.M., so he is going to get medical attention. I have tried the showering technique by using warm water, a hibiscus in the tub, and continuously spraying. It would not trigger his natural drinking reflex. I have tried Fluker's Repta-Aid and managed only to get a few drops into him before leaving him be for fear of overly stressing him out. I have been mixing Pedialyte into his water for spraying to try and add a little electrolytes into his liquids. This morning I managed to get him to eat a few pieces of watermelon that had been soaking in Pedialyte, I'm just worried that even though he is still getting something in his system, I know his poor little liver and kidneys are working overtime. This poor baby is in his cage, eyes closed, sitting. When he does decide to move it's because he is angry that the cage is being misted. If and when he does open his eyes, its peeks and only for a minute or so. His eyes are still fairly rounded, but you can tell there is a sinking happening. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas on what else I could possibly try, I'm all ears and appreciate any help. All I truly know is that 11 A.M. tomorrow can't get here soon enough.

Unrelated to your thread, but I live in Pottstown as well!! Do you go to the PetCo in Upland? I usually go to the Petsmart on 100 and saw a baby veiled I wanted to save from their awful husbandry but the Hubby wouldn't let me

 

[TattooedGZus]

Yes, it was indeed the PETCO in Upland Square. Ironically, the other little male veiled they have was larger than Avis when I got him. 2 weeks later, he is smaller and looks weak. I knew better than to trust the pet store and should have purchased from a reputable breeder, but I saw my little guy and couldn't help it.

 

[TattooedGZus]

I want to add more branches to tier his set up a little more and was wondering what type of tree branches are acceptable. I already know how to heat treat them, I'm just not sure what is safe. Suggestions welcome.

 

[doto]

here is a quick pic of his cage and of my poor little guy (hopefully they upload correctly)

It's a little tough for me to tell but the Dracena looks like it may be a grafted Dracena. Thus the bottom portion of the plant (woody stem and roots) are not Dracena, only the leafy section may be Dracena.

 

[jajeanpierre]

It's a little tough for me to tell but the Dracena looks like it may be a grafted Dracena. Thus the bottom portion of the plant (woody stem and roots) are not Dracena, only the leafy section may be Dracena.

It's not grafted. It's been cut back.

 

[TattooedGZus]

Time for an update. We turned off Avi's UVB bulb and a while later, his eyes opened. My fiancée dusted 10 crickets and he ate 7 of them. Regular mistings and then we leave him alone to relax. So on the agenda for this weekend: find a regular 40 watt incandescent light bulb( damn you energy efficiency!), stock up on small feeders and improved foods for gut loading, and figure out a good dripper system to try and lick this dehydration once and for all. Also planning on elevating his light set up so his UVB can go back on. No MBD here, thanks.

 

[NHenn]

Time for an update. We turned off Avi's UVB bulb and a while later, his eyes opened. My fiancée dusted 10 crickets and he ate 7 of them. Regular mistings and then we leave him alone to relax. So on the agenda for this weekend: find a regular 40 watt incandescent light bulb( damn you energy efficiency!), stock up on small feeders and improved foods for gut loading, and figure out a good dripper system to try and lick this dehydration once and for all. Also planning on elevating his light set up so his UVB can go back on. No MBD here, thanks.

Awesome!!!! Glad to hear he is back to eating again. I hope he continues to gain more and more strength back.