Young cham eyes closed and dehydrated

[TattooedGZus]

2 weeks ago today, I bought our young veiled cham, Avi (short for Avecado) from PetCo. He is in a Reptibreeze enclosure, 16x16x30. We are using a 60 W Daylight blue Reptile bulb and a Reptisun 5.0 UVB bulb. He has a live Dracearna plant in his enclosure along with some heat treated branches and vines for perching and climbing. He is misted 6-8 times a day for a few minutes each time. He WAS averaging 8-10 small crickets dusted with Reptical Calcium without D3 each day and has only had one small dusting of food with calcium with D3. Also 1 dusting of Reptivite on one of his meals. Mealworms or waxworms as occasional treat. Humidity of his cage has been consistent at 75-80%. Basking area is around 80-85 degrees with other areas being a few degrees lower down to around 70 degrees. Was taking him outside for a few hours of natural sunlight, crawling on hisbiscus plants that had been thoroughly washed, resoiled with organic topsoil and stones placed onto the soil. Now to my problem....This past Monday, 9/7/15, I had Avi outside for a few hours of natural sun. Part of the plant in the sun, part in shade to allow for him to cool off if he was too warm. When I took him in, he went into his cage like always, I misted him, and closed the door to give him some quiet time. When I checked on him around 5:30 P.M., his eyes were shut and he was sleeping. Being a first time cham owner, I thought maybe he had a little to much exertion for the day. The following few days, he has been deteriorating bit by bit. He won't eat, he won't drink, he won't open his eyes. Before anyone condemns me, he has a vet appointment tomorrow morning at 11 A.M., so he is going to get medical attention. I have tried the showering technique by using warm water, a hibiscus in the tub, and continuously spraying. It would not trigger his natural drinking reflex. I have tried Fluker's Repta-Aid and managed only to get a few drops into him before leaving him be for fear of overly stressing him out. I have been mixing Pedialyte into his water for spraying to try and add a little electrolytes into his liquids. This morning I managed to get him to eat a few pieces of watermelon that had been soaking in Pedialyte, I'm just worried that even though he is still getting something in his system, I know his poor little liver and kidneys are working overtime. This poor baby is in his cage, eyes closed, sitting. When he does decide to move it's because he is angry that the cage is being misted. If and when he does open his eyes, its peeks and only for a minute or so. His eyes are still fairly rounded, but you can tell there is a sinking happening. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas on what else I could possibly try, I'm all ears and appreciate any help. All I truly know is that 11 A.M. tomorrow can't get here soon enough.

 

[TattooedGZus]

here is a quick pic of his cage and of my poor little guy (hopefully they upload correctly)

 

[pgr7]

Sorry to hear about your cham :/
What I would do in the meantime, is add more height to his enclosures decor so he can get closer to his lights,if he's up on the screen towards the top he may not be getting enough light,uvb strength lessens quickly the further it gets from the source. Having good basking for the heat bulb is important too,if ft helps them warm their insides to digest. Try that our while waiting on the vet app tomorrow(good job on that btw )
Keep us posted and ask any questions you may have.

 

[TattooedGZus]

Just to add since I forgot earlier, his crickets and other feeders were gutloaded with kale, melon and Fluker's orange cubes. I know the orange cubes aren't the best, but I only found that out a few moments ago by reading through the forums. On a side note, I contacted Petco about my little fella, and it's kinda disturbing and disgusting now that I keep thinking about it. They will take my cham back for veterinary care, reimburse me, and then contact me when he comes back in. When I asked what veterinary service they used since I would rather take him myself and pay out of pocket to ensure that he is actually cared for, they wouldn't answer me. So who's to say that if I would actually be willing to turn him over to them and let them take care of it, that when they call me and say he's back, it wouldn't be a completely different baby veiled? Like I said, 11 A.M. can't get here fast enough.

 

[TattooedGZus]

I know it's hard to see in the small picture but his vine that he enjoys basking on is about 5-6 inches from his uvb bulb. I was going to go a little higher, but with him being so little and having read that they have a hard time thermoregulating while small. I just didn't want him to run the risk of getting burns.

 

[MamatoElvis]

Unfortunately Petco's care may have been the problem. I'm sure in your reading you will see the problems people have when purchasing from pet shops. It's rare to see a chameleon in a pet shop that is being cared for properly. I'm glad you have a vet appointment, he does not look good all leaned over. Maybe you could try to call the vet back and see if there's any way they could get you in today. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[JaxyGirl]

I definitely agree with pgr7. His cage looks really sparse. You need more foliage (real or fake) in there for him to hide in so he feels safe and can drink and eat in private till he gets used to you. Most chams are really shy and many won't eat or drink in the open. Also you might want to move him to a room that's really quiet with low trafic. Provide some more branches for him to climb on. He also needs horizontal branches so he can reach his UVB and bask.
He looks like a little guy. Sometimes the compact UVB lights are too strong for their little eyes. So you might want to switch to a linear 5.0 UVB fluorescent bulb. Also you need to gut load your crickets better to provide more nutrients to you Cham. His legs still look straight so it doesn't look like MBD "yet" but it could be the beginning of a vitamin deficiency such as vitamin A because it's effecting his eyes. It's wonderful that you're taking your little guy to the vet and I'm sure they will be able to straighten him out. In the meantime try to keep him hydrated.

 

[JaxyGirl]

I know it's hard to see in the small picture but his vine that he enjoys basking on is about 5-6 inches from his uvb bulb. I was going to go a little higher, but with him being so little and having read that they have a hard time thermoregulating while small. I just didn't want him to run the risk of getting burns.

That's a good distance away. I'm not too sure about those blue bulbs. I've never used them and I'm not sure if it effects their eyes? I use a regular 40 Watt incandescent bulb that you would use for your house. Babies don't need at heir basking areas as hot as juveniles and adults. In the winter I go to a higher wattage because it gets cold in Maine. I think most people on the forums use something similar.

 

[pgr7]

That's a good distance away. I'm not too sure about those blue bulbs. I've never used them and I'm not sure if it effects their eyes? I use a regular 40 Watt incandescent bulb that you would use for your house. Babies don't need at heir basking areas as hot as juveniles and adults. In the winter I go to a higher wattage because it gets cold in Maine. I think most people on the forums use something similar.

I use the blue daylight bulbs 40w for my enclosure,I haven't noticed any ill effects as of yet. They're cheap to buy at my local petco.
Grantee it's only been about two months since mines been under it but so far so good.

 

[TattooedGZus]

The little curling over in the picture is him rubbing his eye on my hand, which is new. Any ideas? Eye infection, maybe?. I have read that it's possible to flush their eyes with saline, but is it safe?

 

[kinyonga]

Please post a photo of the plant so I can see it better...it doesn't look like a dracena to me. If it's a dieffencachia it could be irritating his eyes.

I would change out the blue light for a regular household incandescent light bulb.

The pedialyte in the water could also be irritating his eyes.

 

[TattooedGZus]

According to the plant information (It was bought at Home Depot) it is a Dracerna. Not saying they put the right info on plant. I am at work and unable to post a pic, but will call the missus and have her get it out of there and replace it with a hibiscus. Will also relay to clean out mister bottle and not add Pedialyte. Thanks much for the ideas, any and all input is appreciated.

 

[TattooedGZus]

What wattage for the household incandescent bulb do you recommend? Round bulb, or is a coiled one acceptable? Just trying to do anything possible to help this little baby get back to being himself.

 

[Reddogzz]

"Smart water" has electrolytes in it without other irritants perhaps that might help?

 

[JoeVet]

Could be something simple like shed skin. Try flushing with saline eye rinse. If he climbs to the top of the cage and hangs under the light he could get too much heat which would be bad for his corneas. Also check his humidity.

Most important thing is never ask PetCo for advice about keeping any animal. They will take it to a vet but they never allow diagnostics and barely allow any treatment.

 

[jannb]

Is the UVB a coil bulb? If it is try turning it off for a couple days and see if that helps. Sometimes the UVB light bothers their eyes.

 

[NHenn]

Andy,

I'm sorry to hear about your veiled. Sometimes it can be extremely difficult to pin point the exact issue.

To be honest, I wouldn't recommend taking him to the vet tomorrow. I know, it is opposite of what you think but he is very young and all the stress of everything is taking its toll. I can guarantee you that the vet will not be able to tell you the exact issue and it will only cause him even more stress with being grabbed and poked. When they are older or there is a defined issue I always recommend a vet but unless you know exactly what is causing the issues I think it will do more harm than good in this situation.

I live in Reading PA, would you be willing to bring him to me for a week or so stay and see if I can't help him out? We could go over your current setup, you could check out some of my setups for ideas and I can give it my best shot at turning his health around. I can't guarantee anything but I know being in a perfect environment for him will be his best chance at fixing whatever the issues are.

My cell is (610) 812-7479 and my email is [email protected]. Please feel free to reach out if this is something you feel would help.

 

[kinyonga]

Incandescent...
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...Q9QEwA2oVChMI9ZHaq5LuxwIVzgqSCh0ndwGJ&start=2

 

[TattooedGZus]

Gotcha. Will try a regular 40 watt incandescent bulb. Nick, if you're reading this, I am very interested in your offer. I still would like to take Avi to the vet as he has experience with Veileds, but I believe your help would be invaluable. I trust in your chameleon husbandry as your panther and carpet chams are gorgeous. Basically, what I'm saying is I would like to try and have the best of both worlds. I at least would like to see if the vet can figure something out or have tests and x-rays done to try and rule out something, anything. And if you're still willing, I would love for you to work with Avi. Above all else, I want what is best for my darling little cham. I see things from your side of the fence about not stressing him out. If at all possible, when I get back from the vet, I'd love to give you a call and talk about my little cham, possibly have you come here to check his enclosure and more than likely take him with you to see if you can nurse him back to health, because I'll be honest, with his eyes closed and having to force feed him with as little as he is, it's nerve wracking. It's heartbreaking to see my little boy like this and it's affecting my health as well. I've lost 10 lbs. from neglecting to eat because I'm scouring the internet and YouTube videos for something, anything that would allow me to have a deeper understanding of what's hurting Avi. Everyone on this forum has been absolutely wonderful, and I appreciate it. I firmly believe that with help, this story can have a happy ending.

 

[MamatoElvis]

I would take that fantastic offer from NHenn. You are going to get the optimal environment for your Cham. That's going to be your best chance of turning him around.