Yellow lump on male Yemen chameleon

[Georgiahetterley]

Hi I was just wondering if anyone could help, my Yemen chameleon is 4/5 years old and has started developing a yellow lump on his side that seems to be growing. He is exactly the same in himself, no changes to food consumption or behaviour so it seems like no harm is being caused by this spot like lump but I just wanted some advice so I know what it is and what it may have occurred from. He eats locusts daily and is sprayed with water daily too. See images attached for the lump, thankyou

 

[kinyonga]

I would get him to a vet asap. I've seen a few lumps like this and there has been no proper diagnosis of them.

 

[Leon the chameleon]

I have got the same problem what should I do !!

 

[PetMom]

I have the exact same lump on the chameleon that I "inherited" from my daughter. It started out very small last year and just grew and grew. I have searched all over the Internet for any information and have found nothing. I see no point in taking him to the vet especially after reading the comment about not getting a diagnosis. If you were able to find anything, please post it.

 

[Andee]

If you take him to a vet you can at least get it removed. If it gets too big it gets dangerous, it could be an abscess it looks like it's filled with fluid. But take it to a knowledgeable exotic vet. If it does have fluid it will eventually burst and cause a huge gaping hole. It could be cancerous. It needs to be checked out and most likely removed even if it is benign, if it keeps growing it will cause problems with movement.

 

[Theveiled]

Yes even if there is not a diagnosis they could at least have it removed.

 

[PetMom]

After his first vet visit which left my my husband not happy about the bill, he has vetoed any other vet trips. I understand his viewpoint which is the now not so little guy is not in pain, eating fine, moving fine and seems otherwise to be okay. Plus it would be kind of obvious if the lump suddenly just disappeared. He is already 4. If I feel his situation detoriates that he is in pain, I will do the merciful thing and have him euthanized. I was hoping that someone knew what causes these lumps. If I ever find out, I will post it here.

 

[Andee]

That makes no sense. 4 is very young in my opinion if you have a veiled they can live to be 12 years old, a panther can live to 9 possibly longer. If you aren't prepared to spend money on a vet for your chameleon you should give it to someone who will. He still has a very long life and much of it will most likely be without issue. But chameleons eventually need to go to the vet. Especially as they get older. It's common practice to get a yearly check up and then as they become seniors they need to go to the vet a few times during the year just to make sure they are still doing well. If you honestly won't convince your husband or go against his desires for the better of the chameleon, which is a life and should have everything done to make sure it is good before euthanasia is considered. Removal of it would be simple and probably not dangerous. I would seriously consider giving your chameleon to someone who will pay to take care of him. I am sorry if I sound harsh, but people who flippantly talk about euthanasia when something else could obviously be done beforehand just because the chameleon isn't in pain, it pisses me off. Chameleons are something to be treasured, they are the absolute personification of evolution and the beauty of nature. And just because your chameleon doesn't seem in pain it could very well be, they are experts at hiding physically debilitating problems. It's why most people don't realize something is wrong until it's gotten bad and has a physical deformity.

 

[PetMom]

I agree. Let me explain how I got into this situation. It was not my idea to get him. It was daughter's idea in her sophomore year at college. I personally have come to the conclusion they should not be sold in the pet trade. I was not there and would have strongly argued against it. He started having eye issues which she did take care of. Then she came home on spring break wth him dying. I made her and my husband not only take him to the best vet I could find but come with me. I took care of him since she basically abandoned him to me (she is now banned from any more pets). He lived. I have tried numerous times to rehome him to no success, especially after we lost our dog in April to cancer. I read and have been told they lived to 6 to 8 years. I don't want to just put him on Craigslist and give him to someone who doesn't know anything. I understand completely what you are saying. I am trapped in a box I did not create. If you know of a chameleon rescue group in California please let me know. I want the best for him but can only do so much.

 

[Nursemaia]

http://www.chamlist.org is a very reputable rescue.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I agree. Let me explain how I got into this situation. It was not my idea to get him. It was daughter's idea in her sophomore year at college. I personally have come to the conclusion they should not be sold in the pet trade. I was not there and would have strongly argued against it. He started having eye issues which she did take care of. Then she came home on spring break wth him dying. I made her and my husband not only take him to the best vet I could find but come with me. I took care of him since she basically abandoned him to me (she is now banned from any more pets). He lived. I have tried numerous times to rehome him to no success, especially after we lost our dog in April to cancer. I read and have been told they lived to 6 to 8 years. I don't want to just put him on Craigslist and give him to someone who doesn't know anything. I understand completely what you are saying. I am trapped in a box I did not create. If you know of a chameleon rescue group in California please let me know. I want the best for him but can only do so much.

PetMom, I understand exactly where you are coming from.

Much as I love my chameleons and have spent thousands and thousands getting my wild caughts well, I absolutely understand why you would not want to go to heroic efforts to keep your chameleon alive. I have several animals that basically will get palliative care and nothing more. There is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is allowing a chameleon to linger and suffer. They are very tough and often will be very strong when they really should be euthanized. I see it time and time again on this list with egg bound females with MBD when the owners AND the vets don't do the right thing and just euthanize.

No pet has a right to bankrupt a family. I do not agree with the suggestion that you try to rehome him, which is just foisting your (daughter's) problem off on others. Chameleons should not be expensive once you have got their set up correctly.

Your plan to give him a good life and then euthanize when he is not doing well is a good one. If your husbandry is good you will not need a vet. The lump you mention might be many things. I've taken pretty battered wild caughts in to vets with abscesses on the spinous processes (the long bones that stick out of the vertebrae) and none of the reptile vets I see want to operate. I've had only one abscess lanced and that was only because it suddenly grew. The vets all want the chameleon to wall off whatever is going on and keep it under control themselves.

Chameleons are tough as nails. They will heal themselves and keep themselves healthy as long as you give them what they need, which isn't a lot. Few people seem able to give them the few things they need for good health and I just don't understand that. They just aren't that difficult to keep.

The biggest pitfalls that kills the most chameleons is stress. When a chameleon is stressed, their immune system is suppressed so they become sick with illnesses that they normally would fight off. My Number One goal in keeping my chameleons is to reduce their stress. Most pet owners insist they handle their chameleons and mistake their tolerance for acceptance. Handling stresses most chameleons a lot.

The other biggies are lighting, humidity, nutrition and temperature. If those are wrong, your chameleon will be chronically stressed. Unfortunately, few people are able to recognize when their animal is getting stressed until it is too late. Stress is not a mood or an emotion--it is internal and is a cascade of physiological events you cannot see.

I hope that helps.

 

[jajeanpierre]

That makes no sense. 4 is very young in my opinion if you have a veiled they can live to be 12 years old, a panther can live to 9 possibly longer. If you aren't prepared to spend money on a vet for your chameleon you should give it to someone who will. He still has a very long life and much of it will most likely be without issue. But chameleons eventually need to go to the vet. Especially as they get older. It's common practice to get a yearly check up and then as they become seniors they need to go to the vet a few times during the year just to make sure they are still doing well. If you honestly won't convince your husband or go against his desires for the better of the chameleon, which is a life and should have everything done to make sure it is good before euthanasia is considered. Removal of it would be simple and probably not dangerous. I would seriously consider giving your chameleon to someone who will pay to take care of him. I am sorry if I sound harsh, but people who flippantly talk about euthanasia when something else could obviously be done beforehand just because the chameleon isn't in pain, it pisses me off. Chameleons are something to be treasured, they are the absolute personification of evolution and the beauty of nature. And just because your chameleon doesn't seem in pain it could very well be, they are experts at hiding physically debilitating problems. It's why most people don't realize something is wrong until it's gotten bad and has a physical deformity.

I don't know Andee, four years seems to be a very old veiled. Go through JannB's list of chameleons that have died in her care and not too many even make it to four. Most members can't get their veiled to live one year. Four seems like a pretty good age for a captive veiled in the pet community.

I don't know where you get your 12 year age for a veiled from but I've never heard anyone with a 12 year old veiled or panther. A Parsons or a melleri, yes, but not a veiled or a panther.

I can't for the life of me understand some of your beliefs and you are not alone. Why do you think anyone needs to spend money on a chameleon other than to give it a good life and a kind death? Why do you think an older chameleon needs to go to a vet more often? What is a yearly check up ever going to show?

When I go to the vet I am the one to tell the vet the animal is not doing well not the other way around. The vet can't tell just examining them unless they are just about to die, which often is pretty obvious. Or it might not be. Sometimes dying chameleons are so stressed by a vet appointment that they perk right up and the vet can't see what you saw before you brought it in. Often that final stress of appearing strong will be the last straw and hasten their death.

Doing surgery on a chameleon is NEVER simple and is always dangerous. And expensive.

Chameleons are not experts at hiding any illness. It is humans who are not very observant. Chameleons always let you know how they feel if you watch them enough.

I'm sorry for seemingly picking on you, Andee. I'm really not. I am objecting to the set of beliefs you and others have on how other people should keep their animals. I am objecting to your judging PetMom.

There is one thing we can agree on, Andee, and that is that chameleons should be treasured.

 

[carol5208]

I do agree with Jajeanpierre on the age thing. I have been on this forum for 6.5 yrs now and i think I have seen one veild in all of the hundreds and hundreds(maybe even thousands) of owners and there was one who claimed to have one live to 14. You can search threads on here which discuss age and you will see 12 is not the norm for a Veild. Whether it was the truth or not who knows, but if it was, it is a very rare occasion. Jannb had one live to 6 and there is another member on here who has one of the offspring of this chameleon and I think he is 6 or maybe a little older. There was one panther on facebook that just died and he was 10. He was blind though and didn't get around much and had to have food put in his mouth to eat. That is extremely rare for a panther to live to 10. I do not agree with just euthanizing because it is" not doing well". Many illnesses and diseases can be corrected with the proper treatment. I do realize that everyone does not have the funds for vet bills and therefore maybe it should be considered to not own one in the first place then. To the OP, I know you were thrust into this situation due to your daughter's irresponsibility. There are two rescues in California: House of Chameleons and ChameO. I am sure either one of those would be glad to take your Veild off of your hands.

 

[Andee]

Jannb has had a lot of veileds live past four from what I remember. The average life span for a healthy veiled is 7-8 years. It's when the care of the chameleon falters or they have bad genetics that they die before. Veileds are some of the chameleons with the worst genetics because they are factory bred and most people buy from pet stores. My male panther is already 4 and though he has had some issues the last few months he is back to being healthy and where he needs to be. It's the quality of the care that decides where the life span will go. I do not believe you should prolong a suffering chameleons life. But supposedly her chameleon is not suffering so it would now be the perfect time to prevent that. Yearly check ups aren't necessarily needed when they are younger, but if you have a good exotic vet they can catch things that you might not notice. I have had it happen. Surgery on chameleons I agree is expensive, and it's not going to simple, but this surgery would be far less dangerous than a spaying or a severely invasive procedure.

I do not agree with your beliefs just like you do not agree with mine. Maybe it's because I am merely keeping them as companions at the moment. You have the view of a breeder, and also deal with wild caughts. So your views are very skewed, you deal with high risk and very high numbers from the sounds of your posts. If you brought your chameleons in it could do more damage to them than it would to a captive bred, and it would also cost you close to thousands of dollars each time because if I remember you have close to 20 or so, not including the babies. She has one chameleon. It's totally different.

I don't even know if you ever had a chance to build the companion view of chameleon care. Did you just jump into breeding Graciliors right away? Breeders have to cut expenses I get it, and you still care for your chameleons in a good way in a my opinion. However you still fight for your chameleons more than you say in your post, you fought to keep alive the chameleon you called He Who Will Not Die. You did everything in your power to keep him alive, even when he was on deaths door. You fight for your chameleons more than you say in your posts. Yet you still advocate the breeder view. Which in my honest opinion has no place when we are talking about a companion chameleon.

Senior chameleons need to go to the vet more often because as they get older they do have more problems, such as chronic arthritis, and stuff like that. It is important to make sure to make sure they are healthy and make sure their quality of life is still good.

Breeder views in my opinion, you look at them as a way to make money even if it is to keep breeding project going. It is also to establish breeding lines in captivity. However most breeders have so many different chameleons that they don't often always get names for months, or they don't pay attention to each different personality. Though they have their favorites and they may be kept in a good situation compared to the pet store factories and stuff, it's still breeding. It's not companionship. It's totally different.

My chameleons, I have two and occasionally the ones I am rehabilitating, I notice everything that is a problem. Every time they react badly. They get different things because they like different things. I know every nuance and preference they have. They all have names, even my rehabilitation cases. I can medicate them every day if I have to. If I have a rehabilitation case, I can feed them or water them by hand every few hours. Maybe you can do that because you have a few who are sick every once in a while, but if they all got sick at once it would be impossible.

I honestly want to be a breeder, but it would maybe be only a handful of a chameleons, maybe a male and three females. And it would be of a species that needs help.

I am not picking on you either, but I don't agree with minimalistic breeder views. I never will. I will always believe life should be preserved if it can, but I have had animals my entire life, most of them rescues with debilitating illnesses that sometimes I can help and sometimes I can't. I help when I can, but when it's no longer possible and it makes no sense I put them to sleep, though sometimes it can make me extremely sad. Euthanasia is not something that should be done lightly. You are ending a life. People don't seem to get that. You are killing something no matter how nicely you do it. Why can you only murder people? Why isn't it considered murder if you kill an animal? Euthanasia is usually a thing done of mercy, usually as the thing done when there is no other hope. Chameleons are just as important as anything else in this world. This honestly why I like animals better than pretty much all people. Because humanity takes things for granted. I believe you should only kill for food and you should only euthanize if it's there is nothing else to be done and your chameleon is suffering.

And chameleons can deal with some stress in their lives. Trust me. They are stressed out in the wild regularly and they live through it. In fact they live longer in captivity even with the stress we put them through probably because there is less stress in captivity.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Jannb has had a lot of veileds live past four from what I remember. The average life span for a healthy veiled is 7-8 years. It's when the care of the chameleon falters or they have bad genetics that they die before. Veileds are some of the chameleons with the worst genetics because they are factory bred and most people buy from pet stores. My male panther is already 4 and though he has had some issues the last few months he is back to being healthy and where he needs to be. It's the quality of the care that decides where the life span will go. I do not believe you should prolong a suffering chameleons life. But supposedly her chameleon is not suffering so it would now be the perfect time to prevent that. Yearly check ups aren't necessarily needed when they are younger, but if you have a good exotic vet they can catch things that you might not notice. I have had it happen. Surgery on chameleons I agree is expensive, and it's not going to simple, but this surgery would be far less dangerous than a spaying or a severely invasive procedure.

I do not agree with your beliefs just like you do not agree with mine. Maybe it's because I am merely keeping them as companions at the moment. You have the view of a breeder, and also deal with wild caughts. So your views are very skewed, you deal with high risk and very high numbers from the sounds of your posts. If you brought your chameleons in it could do more damage to them than it would to a captive bred, and it would also cost you close to thousands of dollars each time because if I remember you have close to 20 or so, not including the babies. She has one chameleon. It's totally different.

I don't even know if you ever had a chance to build the companion view of chameleon care. Did you just jump into breeding Graciliors right away? Breeders have to cut expenses I get it, and you still care for your chameleons in a good way in a my opinion. However you still fight for your chameleons more than you say in your post, you fought to keep alive the chameleon you called He Who Will Not Die. You did everything in your power to keep him alive, even when he was on deaths door. You fight for your chameleons more than you say in your posts. Yet you still advocate the breeder view. Which in my honest opinion has no place when we are talking about a companion chameleon.

Senior chameleons need to go to the vet more often because as they get older they do have more problems, such as chronic arthritis, and stuff like that. It is important to make sure to make sure they are healthy and make sure their quality of life is still good.

Breeder views in my opinion, you look at them as a way to make money even if it is to keep breeding project going. It is also to establish breeding lines in captivity. However most breeders have so many different chameleons that they don't often always get names for months, or they don't pay attention to each different personality. Though they have their favorites and they may be kept in a good situation compared to the pet store factories and stuff, it's still breeding. It's not companionship. It's totally different.

My chameleons, I have two and occasionally the ones I am rehabilitating, I notice everything that is a problem. Every time they react badly. They get different things because they like different things. I know every nuance and preference they have. They all have names, even my rehabilitation cases. I can medicate them every day if I have to. If I have a rehabilitation case, I can feed them or water them by hand every few hours. Maybe you can do that because you have a few who are sick every once in a while, but if they all got sick at once it would be impossible.

I honestly want to be a breeder, but it would maybe be only a handful of a chameleons, maybe a male and three females. And it would be of a species that needs help.

I am not picking on you either, but I don't agree with minimalistic breeder views. I never will. I will always believe life should be preserved if it can, but I have had animals my entire life, most of them rescues with debilitating illnesses that sometimes I can help and sometimes I can't. I help when I can, but when it's no longer possible and it makes no sense I put them to sleep, though sometimes it can make me extremely sad. Euthanasia is not something that should be done lightly. You are ending a life. People don't seem to get that. You are killing something no matter how nicely you do it. Why can you only murder people? Why isn't it considered murder if you kill an animal? Euthanasia is usually a thing done of mercy, usually as the thing done when there is no other hope. Chameleons are just as important as anything else in this world. This honestly why I like animals better than pretty much all people. Because humanity takes things for granted. I believe you should only kill for food and you should only euthanize if it's there is nothing else to be done and your chameleon is suffering.

And chameleons can deal with some stress in their lives. Trust me. They are stressed out in the wild regularly and they live through it. In fact they live longer in captivity even with the stress we put them through probably because there is less stress in captivity.

If you think JannB has had a lot of chameleons live past four, why don't you go through her photo albums and actually work out the ages of when they have died. I did once because I kept reading about yet another of her animals that was on death's door step so I actually looked.

As far as the surgery on PetMom's chameleon, you have absolutely no idea of what it would entail. It might be a lump that is attached to the chest wall and goes right through and is attached to the liver or heart. It might have a lot of major blood vessels in it. You don't know. I don't know. She doesn't know. You cannot just assume a "lump" is a simple operation to remove. Most lumps on animals are simply watched.

I take offense to your suggestion that I have a "breeders' view" as if that is somehow less caring than a pet owner's view. You use words like "minimalist breeder views." What the heck does that mean? You talk about breeders wanting to make money as if their blood, sweat and tears (and substantial amount of money breeders invest in their animals) is somehow not worth anything. Cutting costs and doing things on the cheap is not how I deal with my animals whether they are breeding animals, my racehorses, my mutts, my famous show dogs or even my $4 chicken from a mass produced hatchery. I've given away three wonderful captive bred baby quads because they were not something I felt happy about selling. I have given away and paid for the shipping of a mangled wild caught the importer gave me after I got him healthy and then sent on to ChamEO rescue. Cutting costs would have been culling the three I bred and leaving the mangled Quasimodo at the importers for him to deal with. So, exactly what is this "breeders' view" label you have pinned on me?

You are suggesting older chameleons need to go to a vet because of arthritis. I was a little surprised at the mention of arthritis so actually looked in a Mader's REPTILE MEDICINE AND SURGERY for arthritis and could not find it mentioned anywhere other than septic arthritis which is not the same as arthritis you are talking about. I've never heard of a chameleon having arthritis and what exactly would you do about it anyway? Why would a vet be needed to deal with an aging chameleon? What exactly can a vet do?

A vet is not going to be able to spot something out of the blue that you didn't know you had a problem with. If a vet can spot ill health in your chameleon when you are not aware it is unhealthy, you absolutely need to stop and start watching and researching what a healthy chameleon looks and acts like. That is basic husbandry. You should know what healthy looks like and if you don't, you should learn it. It is not rocket science.

And last, you are suggesting that chameleons are regularly stressed in the wild. I'm sure they are. The one thing they are not subjected to is chronic stress from poor husbandry, small cages, lack of cover, captivity, poor nutrition, poor lighting, lack of exercise, lack of the opportunity to express their natural behaviors (people even take the little joy they get hunting away and cup feed) and on and on and on. It is that chronic stress that kills them.

 

[carol5208]

Jajean, Dr. Mader has actually diagnosed one or more of Jann's chameleons with arthritis. It does happen. I am not sure if you are aware, but that is Jann's vet. I am not sure why it is not mentioned in his book. Maybe Jann can ask him. And there are pain meds that can be given if they do have it.

 

[Andee]

All of your last paragraph suggests poor husbandry which I already explained as a major killer and stressor of chameleons. Jannb just said to me she has had two panthers live to be 8 and 7, several chameleons to live to be 6 and several live to be 5. If you read posts on this forum about senior chameleons they get diagnosed with arthritis by vets all the time. Jannb has had several who were diagnosed with it. When they get diagnosed to it they go on pain medication just like humans would.

In other words, you have been taking care of chameleons for 2 years. And yet now you constantly bash people and put them down. You attack people including brand new members who are just here because they need to learn. I know I do it on occasion when I feel strongly about something. Yet I read at least one post from you every day where you completely make someone feel like crap and make many people feel like they should just give up. You start arguments. And it's because you think you know everything.

If you really didn't have a view like I said you did, you would not of told her to just euthanize her chameleon. Honestly people who will not pay for their chameleon to go to the vet, should not own one. All animals eventually need to go the vet. Dogs get annual check ups. Why is a chameleon any less important?

 

[JGuinan007]

All of your last paragraph suggests poor husbandry which I already explained as a major killer and stressor of chameleons. Jannb just said to me she has had two panthers live to be 8 and 7, several chameleons to live to be 6 and several live to be 5. If you read posts on this forum about senior chameleons they get diagnosed with arthritis by vets all the time. Jannb has had several who were diagnosed with it. When they get diagnosed to it they go on pain medication just like humans would.

In other words, you have been taking care of chameleons for 2 years. And yet now you constantly bash people and put them down. You attack people including brand new members who are just here because they need to learn. I know I do it on occasion when I feel strongly about something. Yet I read at least one post from you every day where you completely make someone feel like crap and make many people feel like they should just give up. You start arguments. And it's because you think you know everything.

If you really didn't have a view like I said you did, you would not of told her to just euthanize her chameleon. Honestly people who will not pay for their chameleon to go to the vet, should not own one. All animals eventually need to go the vet. Dogs get annual check ups. Why is a chameleon any less important?

CHAMELEON LIVES MATTER!

 

[jajeanpierre]

All of your last paragraph suggests poor husbandry which I already explained as a major killer and stressor of chameleons. Jannb just said to me she has had two panthers live to be 8 and 7, several chameleons to live to be 6 and several live to be 5. If you read posts on this forum about senior chameleons they get diagnosed with arthritis by vets all the time. Jannb has had several who were diagnosed with it. When they get diagnosed to it they go on pain medication just like humans would.

In other words, you have been taking care of chameleons for 2 years. And yet now you constantly bash people and put them down. You attack people including brand new members who are just here because they need to learn. I know I do it on occasion when I feel strongly about something. Yet I read at least one post from you every day where you completely make someone feel like crap and make many people feel like they should just give up. You start arguments. And it's because you think you know everything.

If you really didn't have a view like I said you did, you would not of told her to just euthanize her chameleon. Honestly people who will not pay for their chameleon to go to the vet, should not own one. All animals eventually need to go the vet. Dogs get annual check ups. Why is a chameleon any less important?

I didn't bash anyone. I explained my viewpoint. I supported the viewpoint of someone who was offering a good life to a chameleon and a good death, with no heroics to keep it alive longer. And NOWHERE on this thread did I tell anyone to euthanize any chameleon. Please, I can get into enough trouble on my own without you misrepresenting what I write.

 

[PetMom]

Wow, I did not mean to start such an intense discussion. I actually was just trying to figure out what the thing is. Sorry I don't know how to post a picture of him, my computer skills are not that good. I do like reptiles and amphibians, having grown up in Florida playing with the little green grass snakes and black racers. I value him a lot. Once he was under my care, I read as much as I could about them. He is left alone almost all day so that he has peace and quiet. He has a favorite hiding spot where he can peek out. He has his favorite food shipped to our house. I check his temps and humidity daily. But we are now "empty nesters" except for him. And I want to be emptier. This discussion stems from the fact that unlike many others who are terrified or hate these species, we are interested in and enjoy them. I am happy that my daughter shares my interest. I was angry with her for not thinking this through and picking him because he was fascinating to look at. But she is not alone. I have read so many posts on the internet from people who thought "hey, won't my friends think this is really cool (aging myself here)" without really considering what is involved. I majored in Zoology because I love animals. I have never kept anything exotic for that same reason. At this point, I am going to continue looking into rescue groups to try to do what is best for him. I thank all of you for your advice and viewpoints. I have enjoyed meeting others that also think that this part of the animal world is really amazing.