worth it?

Would it be worth it to make Leo available for breeding? He is a 2 year old veiled chameleon for those of you who don't know him. Unfortunately I don't know his lineage but all good lines have to start somewhere right :). He is extremely docile, even gets along with my male panther. He has a lot of blue, green, and yellow, really a looker when he's outside.


I also have a beautiful male panther, Calais, who I would also like to make available for breeding, but he is a crossed locale so I don't know if anyone would want to breed to him. He is an Ambilobe X Nosy Be and just like Leo is very docile and gets along with him. He is a little less outgoing than leo but I have only had him for a week and he hasn't showed any signs of aggression, just a little fearful. Fire engine red with blue bars and yellow when fired up and turquoise with red and green when outside. Here is a picture
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
Kayla, they are both gorgeous but I would advise you not to breed. The males can have medical problems when breed.....prolaps and bleeding from the vent which could cost you in medical bill and have something wrong with one of your babies. Also veileds are very hard to find a good home for and I would think it would be hard with a cross also.
 
Kayla, they are both gorgeous but I would advise you not to breed. The males can have medical problems when breed.....prolaps and bleeding from the vent which could cost you in medical bill and have something wrong with one of your babies. Also veileds are very hard to find a good home for and I would think it would be hard with a cross also.
Okay thanks it was just a thought, that is why I posted to get advice on the subject :)
 

Miss Lily

Chameleon Enthusiast
Kayla, they are both gorgeous but I would advise you not to breed. The males can have medical problems when breed.....prolaps and bleeding from the vent which could cost you in medical bill and have something wrong with one of your babies. Also veileds are very hard to find a good home for and I would think it would be hard with a cross also.
This is one of the main reasons that I will not be breeding Tommy and Amy. As much as I would like to for the experience of rasing babies form eggs, it really isn't an option for me. I live on a small Island, and the reptile shop has enough trouble ensuring that baby chams go to good homes. In fact, they do not sell them anymore as they became fed up with the amount of them that were either reappearing in the shop to be rehomed, or appearing on the local version of ebay for sale once the owners realised what is involved. I would just feel so responsible for each and every baby and I think it would put a lot of people off as I would be so questioning about the care they should be given! Tommy himself is one such cham that was advertised on the local version of ebay and he now has his happy forever home with me and I love him to bits!
 
hey justjumpit, im not quite sure why mixed answers are being given, why would jann say something about prolapse and bleeding, and tiff talked about finding them proper homes. is this a concern to you because your OP didnt mention anything about it. they are both beautiful boys, so why wouldnt it be worth it to try and use them as a sire? if they are docile, and you mentioned no problems with them.

as far as your hybrid pardalis goes, there will be many many people on both sides of debate, and seeing the location you are in, dont think you would have any problems finding homes for babies of both the veileds and crosses, i think i a hybrid ambilobe x nosy be x one pure locale would be a very neat project to start, and i believe the outcome would be beautiful.

if you are worried about any harms, then take them both to the vet for a fecal and a once over.

i'm not sure if you have ever tried breeding before, but it can be very overwhelming for someone just starting. your veileds are still young and look super healthy, but if you decided to breed them, i would do one breed at time. IMO it would give you a good boost on experience, would cut the cost of food in half making it easier on your wallet, and it would be faster getting rid of babies from just one clutch instead of two.
 

Miss Lily

Chameleon Enthusiast
I didn't say that the OP should not breed her chams if that is what she chooses to do. I merely wanted to expand on what Jann mentioned about finding good homes with competent owners for the resulting babies. I guess I just feel too much responsibility and love my chams probably too much.:eek: I have been asked many times if I will breed Amy and Tommy, and feel that for me, I just couldn't do it - I would end up with either keeping them or taking them back when the new owners could no longer cope or the novelty had worn off. That just isn't realistic or practical for me to do. So, for once I will take the responsible and most sensible path and not breed them.
 
i know exactly what you mean Tiff, raising babies just as is even grows an attachment within us that doesnt want to let the babies go, or makes us worry about their new homes. but unfortunately, the worry is there with any animal given up by the breeder/past owner, that requirements or same car given by us, will not be given by them. i personally do not think you can stop it, even on here we have seen undedicated owners looking for new homes for their chameleons.

I say if it gives JustJumpIt the experience and boost into breeding, if she can make a little profit to make back what she invested, and even if she does it and decideds to only do it once "just to do it", i say give it a go! and if you ever wanna ship to windsor ontario, you have a buyer for a one of the panther crosses :)
 

Miss Lily

Chameleon Enthusiast
Don't get me wrong - it is something I would rally love to do - Amy and Tommy would make such adorable and friendly babies and if I could gurantee that I could see them all go to good forever homes (like Jann did with her babies) then I would do it as soon as I could! I really enjoy following peoples stories on here about breeding their chams - I LOVE seeing all those babies and remember how wonderful it was to see loads of 'little green people' when I went to choose Amy. It's been great to watch Jann's babies grow up on the forums just like my Amy has done. it is wonderful to see their progress!
 
if you yourself wanted to breed just for the experience tiff, why dont you invest in a species that doesnt produce large clutches. doesnt have to be chameleons tiff, i think breeding your cresties would be a fun little project for you when the times right :)
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
hey justjumpit, im not quite sure why mixed answers are being given, why would jann say something about prolapse and bleeding, and tiff talked about finding them proper homes. is this a concern to you because your OP didnt mention anything about it. they are both beautiful boys, so why wouldnt it be worth it to try and use them as a sire? if they are docile, and you mentioned no problems with them.

as far as your hybrid pardalis goes, there will be many many people on both sides of debate, and seeing the location you are in, dont think you would have any problems finding homes for babies of both the veileds and crosses, i think i a hybrid ambilobe x nosy be x one pure locale would be a very neat project to start, and i believe the outcome would be beautiful.

if you are worried about any harms, then take them both to the vet for a fecal and a once over.

i'm not sure if you have ever tried breeding before, but it can be very overwhelming for someone just starting. your veileds are still young and look super healthy, but if you decided to breed them, i would do one breed at time. IMO it would give you a good boost on experience, would cut the cost of food in half making it easier on your wallet, and it would be faster getting rid of babies from just one clutch instead of two.
Ginger, that’s just a couple of the medical problems my daughter has encountered when breeding, I've read about others here on the forums. I know that Kayla's first chameleon had a ton of medical problems and didn't think she would want to take any chances on even the slightest chance of medical issues again. As far as a profit breeding a veiled I could never see it happening unless you are selling off the entire clutch shortly after hatch to a pet shop or something. I kept my babies until 2 to 3 months old and took a big loss. The amount of food they could eat was unreal. :eek: Normally from one breeding you will have two clutchs.....the female will retain sperm for a second clutck and sometimes even a third. :eek:
 
Ginger, that’s just a couple of the medical problems my daughter has encountered when breeding, I've read about others here on the forums. I know that Kayla's first chameleon had a ton of medical problems and didn't think she would want to take any chances on even the slightest chance of medical issues again. As far as a profit breeding a veiled I could never see it happening unless you are selling off the entire clutch shortly after hatch to a pet shop or something. I kept my babies until 2 to 3 months old and took a big loss. The amount of food they could eat was unreal. :eek: Normally from one breeding you will have two clutchs.....the female will retain sperm for a second clutck and sometimes even a third. :eek:
very true jann, didnt think about the sperm retention. i guess my views on the distribution are different because of the place i live and the demand for chams here. chameleons are becoming quite hot again in southern ontario. ive even talked to a well reputable exotic reptile store, and 40-50$ is resonable to buy a veiled from me @ whatever quantity they were interested. where pin heads are 500 for 15$ and get cheaper as you get higher in quantity. my source would even take my hatchlings to exposhows and sell them there as well for myself and not the stores benifit. so 40-50$ there is still a good profit for me. and of course the private sell of 80-100$ is offered,

i do believe that the breeders should be examinated before and after breeding, but that is money. complexities are something you can not always be avoided either. accidents and injuries CAN happen at anytime even with a medical exam prior. i can understand why your daughter and even you wouldnt ever want to take a chance with complications or medical issues again, im not saying you two are, but i would deffinately be discouraged and nervous about doing it again.
 

Miss Lily

Chameleon Enthusiast
very true jann, didnt think about the sperm retention. i guess my views on the distribution are different because of the place i live and the demand for chams here. chameleons are becoming quite hot again in southern ontario. ive even talked to a well reputable exotic reptile store, and 40-50$ is resonable to buy a veiled from me @ whatever quantity they were interested. where pin heads are 500 for 15$ and get cheaper as you get higher in quantity. my source would even take my hatchlings to exposhows and sell them there as well for myself and not the stores benifit. so 40-50$ there is still a good profit for me. and of course the private sell of 80-100$ is offered,

i do believe that the breeders should be examinated before and after breeding, but that is money. complexities are something you can not always be avoided either. accidents and injuries CAN happen at anytime even with a medical exam prior. i can understand why your daughter and even you wouldnt ever want to take a chance with complications or medical issues again, im not saying you two are, but i would deffinately be discouraged and nervous about doing it again.
If I had these options available to me then I would definitely breed! Sadly, living on this tiny Island (26 miles wide) there are nor Expos or shows. The nearest one is a ferry trip and an hours drive away on the Mainland and that show is held once a year. Sometimes I wish I lived over the pond!
 
If I had these options available to me then I would definitely breed! Sadly, living on this tiny Island (26 miles wide) there are nor Expos or shows. The nearest one is a ferry trip and an hours drive away on the Mainland and that show is held once a year. Sometimes I wish I lived over the pond!
LOL! Tiff i never knew you lived on an Island, that's actually so cute to think your stranded on a small piece of land living with chameleons and geckos. hahah. dont sell them then, keep them all and it will be even cuter! haha
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
Both your chameleons are beeeautiful, that's obvious. Even people who hate crosses would have to admit yours is just stunning!

Obviously it's your descision to breed them, but I would just enjoy them. I'd also ask if the people that have put up stud ads in the classifieds have had any contact. People may not trust that your guys are in perfect health and such without really knowing you in person. I have a feeling that's why you don't really hear a lot about studding out males, since people don't want to have a healthy female who catches an infection or something from a male. I'm not acusing you of having sick animals, of course, I'm just speculating that's a big deterrent for people? But who knows.

I get emails all the time asking if I'm going to breed my Nosy Be but I just tell them I can't (no female) and won't. I'm one of those people that if I bred I'd probably try to keep like 10 of the babies! :D And just can't have 16+ chameleons. But no one ever offers to join their female with my male, so I think it's got something to do with health. Either the catching something, or having to deal with the "dangerous" half of breeding (losing the female to egg-laying), or who knows.
 
That's really what I was getting at Olympia, i was just wondering if I should put my guys up for stud, if only once. I don't have any females, but I know people around here who do and who breed. I know that Leopold is healthy, I haven't had Calais long enough to be certain he has no issues but so far he seems healthy also. I could always leave the option out there for breeders who want some new lines, it would not be a lot anyway if at all.
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
I'm sure yours are as healthy as possible, but since these are such sensitive animals (and sometimes they may be sick for weeks and weeks before they really show symptoms! Which is why we quaranteen new chameleons even if they're from super trusted sources and top notch breeders) I'm sure most people might be put off the idea, unless they could quaranteen your cham for a couple months. Which is unrealistic.

I can imagine it being fun to do with a friend you trust, like two members did with their veileds. Otherwise I imagine there would have to be paperwork involved, like a contract, outlining rules and such? Otherwise you might have the rights to X babies for yourself and then there's no say in what happens to the others?

I remember recently someone said that the breeder she bought her panther pair from wanted all the babies her pair produced except one or two, and I suggested that she make a contract of some sort because that sounded like a huge scam to me.
 
I'm sure yours are as healthy as possible, but since these are such sensitive animals (and sometimes they may be sick for weeks and weeks before they really show symptoms! Which is why we quaranteen new chameleons even if they're from super trusted sources and top notch breeders) I'm sure most people might be put off the idea, unless they could quaranteen your cham for a couple months. Which is unrealistic.

I can imagine it being fun to do with a friend you trust, like two members did with their veileds. Otherwise I imagine there would have to be paperwork involved, like a contract, outlining rules and such? Otherwise you might have the rights to X babies for yourself and then there's no say in what happens to the others?

I remember recently someone said that the breeder she bought her panther pair from wanted all the babies her pair produced except one or two, and I suggested that she make a contract of some sort because that sounded like a huge scam to me.
Yeah we have a small chameleon community here and we all kind of know each other so it may be something to do once, I really don't want to make money off breeding them to someones girl, maybe just keep one.
 

Cainschams

New Member
Would it be worth it to make Leo available for breeding? He is a 2 year old veiled chameleon for those of you who don't know him. Unfortunately I don't know his lineage but all good lines have to start somewhere right :). He is extremely docile, even gets along with my male panther. He has a lot of blue, green, and yellow, really a looker when he's outside.


I also have a beautiful male panther, Calais, who I would also like to make available for breeding, but he is a crossed locale so I don't know if anyone would want to breed to him. He is an Ambilobe X Nosy Be and just like Leo is very docile and gets along with him. He is a little less outgoing than leo but I have only had him for a week and he hasn't showed any signs of aggression, just a little fearful. Fire engine red with blue bars and yellow when fired up and turquoise with red and green when outside. Here is a picture
Here is my opinion, of course:p As for the veiled, if you want to stud him out I would see no problem with that! He is definitely a nice looking veiled. Im not too keen on them but the real yellow ones like your guy are IMO the best looking ones. I would not go as far as shipping someone a veiled to stud out unless the price was right and they would hold it long enough so it didnt have to be shipped twice real quick and could settle in. Just the stress factor. Also making sure both animals are healthy and fecal samples are clean so there is no spread of parasites etc. If you could find someone close to you that would be the best scenario. You could stud him out and ask for a percentage of the babies or even eggs so you can get the satisfaction of hatching them out with only needing to deal with a few eggs or specimen and not dealing with all the expenses. Personally, if that is what you want to do then go for it!!

Now for the panther. I am not into crossing locales. I dont want to start a fight here. IMO there are enough crossed locales that get created from dishonest breeders, WC import mix ups and mis-labeled shipments. These can be the pets for those who like the mixed locales but should not be bred on purpose if you ask me. Your mixed panther is one of the nicer ones I have seen. Honestly it looks like a red body blue bar Ambilobe. I wouldnt be able to tell if it was a cross at least from your picture. This also makes me wonder about all the other red body blue bars out there.

That being said, by all means, do what you want to do with both animals!!! Opinions are like....well, we know the rest of that statement;)
 
Here is my opinion, of course:p As for the veiled, if you want to stud him out I would see no problem with that! He is definitely a nice looking veiled. Im not too keen on them but the real yellow ones like your guy are IMO the best looking ones. I would not go as far as shipping someone a veiled to stud out unless the price was right and they would hold it long enough so it didnt have to be shipped twice real quick and could settle in. Just the stress factor. Also making sure both animals are healthy and fecal samples are clean so there is no spread of parasites etc. If you could find someone close to you that would be the best scenario. You could stud him out and ask for a percentage of the babies or even eggs so you can get the satisfaction of hatching them out with only needing to deal with a few eggs or specimen and not dealing with all the expenses. Personally, if that is what you want to do then go for it!!

Now for the panther. I am not into crossing locales. I dont want to start a fight here. IMO there are enough crossed locales that get created from dishonest breeders, WC import mix ups and mis-labeled shipments. These can be the pets for those who like the mixed locales but should not be bred on purpose if you ask me. Your mixed panther is one of the nicer ones I have seen. Honestly it looks like a red body blue bar Ambilobe. I wouldnt be able to tell if it was a cross at least from your picture. This also makes me wonder about all the other red body blue bars out there.

That being said, by all means, do what you want to do with both animals!!! Opinions are like....well, we know the rest of that statement;)
Thank you. Yeah I was told by his previous owner that he is a cross but I don't know for sure or where he heard that from.
 

pssh

Avid Member
Here's what I say. Breed if you want. If you are concerned about not being able to find the babies good homes, then pop some eggs. Keep a few and raise those ones. It's much easier on yourself and you still get the experience! Or you can stud your boys out and ask for a few eggs as payment. Then you don't have to worry about the majority of the eggs.
 
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