Wobbly cham, HELP!

[fluxanimator]

Not sure how exactly to describe this but my chameleon is wobbly. You know how they shake like a leaf sometimes. Well crank that up to 10. He is having a hard time walking around. His grip is strong, he has energy, has not been eating for about a day and a half, no other signs of MBD (bent joints, rubbery cask/mouth etc), 2 UVB lights on top, a 10.0 and a 5.0, also a heat lamp, mist 3 times a day, enclosure is 24'x24'x48'. I dust his crickets everytime with calcium. Anyone know what this is a symptom of? I just moved him into a new enclosure but he was a little wobbly before I moved him. Now it has just gotten worse. Help!

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a picture?

What supplements/brands do you use? (I know you mentioned calcium).

What do you use to feed/utload the insects with?

 

[Chill]

Wobbly huh thats strange not to sure.... but i can tell you he might not be eating bcuz its sounds like he might have hypercalcification. you shouldnt be dustin his crickets with calcium everytime maybe only once or twice a week depending on age or if the cham was gravid. are ther any other signs of sicklyness like dehydration??

 

[fluxanimator]

I was thinking that too, maybe too much calcium. It's the only thing I can think of. I am so careful. I use Repcal with vitamin D3. I picked up some Herptivite last night to try to give to him just incase he's not getting enough vitamins. I gutload with kale, fish flakes, carrot, and some store bought cricket gutload.

If it is too much calcium, what do I do??

Thanks

 

[Chill]

Im not to sure what you could do, i would watch him and he doesnt start eating soon i would try to maybe hand feed him. but if it looks likes its getting worse than id bring him to a vet.

 

[fluxanimator]

He was really bad last night. I accidentally woke him up at about 1am and he fumbled around the cage for almost an hour. I stayed up with my hand at the bottom just incase he fell. He did finally go to sleep. I put some towels around the bottom just in case he did fall when I am away it will be a soft landing. I went home at luch today and he was still wobbly, but he did let me spray him with water. He hasn't gotten worse, he's about the same. This is driving me crazy. I am at work right now and won't be home until later. I appreciate the quick posts.

 

[Chill]

yah no problem but if you find out what it is let me know...i work at a local pet store and im an owner of chams so i can relay the info to other ppl

 

[fluxanimator]

If, I mean WHEN, he gets better I will let you know what it was. I'll try anything. Thanks

 

[VerteX]

Over supplementation of D3 or Herptivite will lead to build up in the body. Please research "dusting schedule" to learn more on this topic.

Please also research "gout".
http://www.mythicalchameleons.com/vetcases.htm#gout

 

[Parandrus]

I was about to suggest what VerteX just said as far as it possibly being Gout. If you are supplementing as much as you say, the gutload used includes fish flakes and other high animal protein items, and he is only getting misted (no drip system) you could be having a gout problem in your hands. Impossible to say without an exam of the chameleon and further diagnostics tests.

Ivan

 

[fluxanimator]

I'm guessing that's what it is too. So I just need to keep him very hydrated and cut back on so much supplimentation? Has anyone else had this happen to their cham? If so did they get better and what did you do? Thanks!

 

[Parandrus]

You will have to have the chameleon seen by a veterinarian in order to reliably diagnose gout. Plenty of fresh water helps but in some cases it could be irreversible. It is a condition that can be very painful to the chameleon so your vet will need to discuss all options with you if the chameleon has gout.

Ivan

 

[Julirs]

I would stop using fish flakes.

 

[fluxanimator]

I may have to go to the vet but unfortunately I just started a new job and work pretty long hours. I won't have another day off until next Thursday, and asking for time off may not be in my best interest. I was hoping to be able to remedy this myself. As long as he hangs in there until Thursday, I'll go. The cost doesn't bother me, it's just my time that's limited.

 

[Julirs]

Tomorrow I would try to get him as much water as he will drink. What are your watering methods and schedule like? What has he been eating besides crix? In some of your pics he looks a bit thin-but hard to tell from pics.

 

[fluxanimator]

He's actually pretty plump. He mainly eats crickets but does get waxworms occasionally. I've also fed him moths in the past but not in a month or so. I mist him in the morning, afternoon, and evening. There are no fake plants in my enclosure and it stays fairly humid.

 

[Julirs]

How do you water?

 

[fluxanimator]

I've got a 1/2 gallon hand pump mister that works pretty well. I also have a cup with a small hole in it that I let drip water. Drips for an hour or so.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Flux,
In reading the posts so far, I see lots of advice based on complete guesses, and only one valid course of action based on logic .. to see a vet.

Could it be fish flakes, supplementation, etc ? Sure, It could also not be too. I have seen "wobbles" about a half dozen times in panthers. That would be out of several thousand candidates through the years. I have only limited experience with veileds, having worked with about 100. Were any of them the same as the wobbles you see in your chameleon ? Not a clue. I can't even say that any of mine were caused by the same agent. I have seen it in five juveniles and one adult, all lasting 2-6 months. The adult and two juveniles recovered fully with no recurrence, and no change in their regimens. Three juveniles died. I can't say with certainty that their deaths were linked to the wobbles, but the possibility has to be there. In all the cases, we saw no link to any causitive agent. It appeared random. In every situation we had many other chameleons linked genetically, in the same husbandry conditions, same food, proximity, etc. etc., and not even a hint of a link to a cause. Again, all observations pointed to a random condition. One asset of having lots of critters is that deficiencies in genetics, husbandry, etc, become apparent in quantity, and aid in the inclusion and exclusion of common threads, and hence, causes.

Diagnostics and vet care are not inexpensive. But its also the first best way for you to get accurate feedback. You could try any change in husbandry that caught your whim, but its hard to know what to fix if you don't know what is broke. I have personal experience with the use of fish flakes as a gutload over the course of years, with hundreds of animals. Never seen an epidemic of wobbles, much less a single case in an animal on flake-fed crickets. That is not an endorsement of fish flakes, just an observation valid to some of the discussion here. As diagnostics for reptiles improve, and we avail ourselves of them more, we would only hope to connect the dots a little bit better in the future. Until you seek them out, I would caution against some of the half-cocked solutions. Three-quarters cocked is better Good luck.

 

[Julirs]

Do you see him drink?