snookey266
New Member
Nevermind my last post- I just saw the other thread with the results! 
Winning cham for October
- Thread starter BocaJan
- Start date
Roni013
New Member
"I'm sorry, awards should be given to those that deserve it, not those that feel like the bar should be dropped because they aren't good enough at the task that the award is for."
I'm not asking for the bar to be dropped. I was just under the impression that Brad was trying to let forum people decide the winner- as said this is not a photography forum or I would not even try and participate in the contest. I just think if the people like a photo, flawed or not then it should be the winner. If Brad wants to decide the winner based on photo skills then why have the people vote at all? Why not just have judges?
Maybe we should alternating contests, one month have a judging panel decide based on quality and photo expertise and the next month be decided on forum members votes, that way maybe those of us who normally might not be 'good enough' might have a chance.
I'm not asking for the bar to be dropped. I was just under the impression that Brad was trying to let forum people decide the winner- as said this is not a photography forum or I would not even try and participate in the contest. I just think if the people like a photo, flawed or not then it should be the winner. If Brad wants to decide the winner based on photo skills then why have the people vote at all? Why not just have judges?
Maybe we should alternating contests, one month have a judging panel decide based on quality and photo expertise and the next month be decided on forum members votes, that way maybe those of us who normally might not be 'good enough' might have a chance.
wheresstimpy
New Member
because our vote contributes to the point system as well
PantherVeileD
New Member
this photo contest is for fun! I feel that the judges should pick the final 12 pictures and have voters for the final winner. Most votes win! By all mean I know not everyone here is a camera pro but at least have a clean and clear shot!!
I think its good the way it is. Its about a prize aswell.. Then it cannot be given to just anyone.
BUT. I think that not everybody has a Extreme camera that zooms in or give great quality or can efford it. so i hope that the desision isnt just on the quality.
David
And dont get offended or anything, just read my opinion. Thanks!
Love to Chamforums.com!
BUT. I think that not everybody has a Extreme camera that zooms in or give great quality or can efford it. so i hope that the desision isnt just on the quality.
David
And dont get offended or anything, just read my opinion. Thanks!
Love to Chamforums.com!
Kat77
New Member
I HOPE that Vibrant isn't feeling bad that this thread happened to start right after he won the contest. His photo was beautiful, and deserving of a prize. However, I do agree with whoever said that perhaps alternating contests would be beneficial. I can't personally afford a six hundred dollar camera. I have only entered one photo which didn't make it to the finals, frankly, because it sucked. I'm not complaining about that. But I think popular opinion is important on a forum like this. And tend to agree (even after reading all the posts) that the vote is a little misleading when the one who wins the popular vote doesn't win the contest.
For the record, I voted for Vibrant's photo, so I'm not complaining about who won.
For the record, I voted for Vibrant's photo, so I'm not complaining about who won.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
At the end of the day, I think the problem stems from the fact that the voting seems to be insignificant to judge who is the winner of the contest.
I believe in the judging panel.
And i do remember the problem with voting mentioned back then in the old thread and I happened to agree with Brad's concern.
But, I also understand the frustration of this particular contest when the winner (congratulations, BTW)is not the one who got the most vote.
My take on this is if you want the voting to be implemented for the contest then those votes should matter.
If not, then judging panel should have the final say. In this case, it should be explained clearly that voting is for recreational purpose only (or scrap the voting idea altogether).
Either way, I think, is a valid decision.
After all, it is a free contest, everybody (in dr. Nick's voice)
I believe in the judging panel.
And i do remember the problem with voting mentioned back then in the old thread and I happened to agree with Brad's concern.
But, I also understand the frustration of this particular contest when the winner (congratulations, BTW
)is not the one who got the most vote.My take on this is if you want the voting to be implemented for the contest then those votes should matter.
If not, then judging panel should have the final say. In this case, it should be explained clearly that voting is for recreational purpose only (or scrap the voting idea altogether).
Either way, I think, is a valid decision.
After all, it is a free contest, everybody (in dr. Nick's voice)
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
I think a poll would be valid to see what members would enjoy more...
A contest with finalist and winners chosen solely by experienced impartial pro photographers.(I would agree with something like this if you were holding a private pay to enter, professional photocontest whose entries consisted of all seasoned and experienced photographers, Like a photo contest at an art gallery.) But we are just a bunch of cham owner shooting shots, trying to have fun by particpating, and if you can create an image that enough people like, you should have the right to the prize.
Or a contest where juges filter out images into 10 or so finalists... and the winner is chosen by a open vote by the community. ( I prefer this idea, as the winner would represent the most enjoyed picture of everone on the forum, and people can feel as if their participation meant something.)
A contest with finalist and winners chosen solely by experienced impartial pro photographers.(I would agree with something like this if you were holding a private pay to enter, professional photocontest whose entries consisted of all seasoned and experienced photographers, Like a photo contest at an art gallery.) But we are just a bunch of cham owner shooting shots, trying to have fun by particpating, and if you can create an image that enough people like, you should have the right to the prize.
Or a contest where juges filter out images into 10 or so finalists... and the winner is chosen by a open vote by the community. ( I prefer this idea, as the winner would represent the most enjoyed picture of everone on the forum, and people can feel as if their participation meant something.)
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
This would achieve both of what I sense are the two desired goals:
1 - good quality artistic photos that could be used in calendars etc
2 - fun, something for everyone to participate in - even if you dont take pictures, you can vote and have your opinion count
Chameleons Northwest
Avid Member
Ah, our man Herc, the chameleon forums poet laureate speaks again!
Sporkthedork
New Member
From my understanding the photo contest goes through 3 rounds.
1. Brad selects the best 10-12 photos from the bunch
2. The forum members can vote on which one they like
3. The judges assign points of 3,2 and 1 point to their top 3.
It's not like the judges have that much impact if you really think about it. Sure their votes might have 3 times more weight than the average forum member but there's only 2-3 judges from what I've read. Compare that to the many members that vote, it's not that much. The only reason, the winning cham was the winner cause the judges gave that photo at least 8 judges points more than the forum members top pick. So from the 10 photos that they could have chosen from, all of the judges must have given the winning photo the 3 or 2 point slots. That's something to think about. How often does it happen when the judges all give the same photo the 3 or 2 points slots from top 10 photos.
1. Brad selects the best 10-12 photos from the bunch
2. The forum members can vote on which one they like
3. The judges assign points of 3,2 and 1 point to their top 3.
It's not like the judges have that much impact if you really think about it. Sure their votes might have 3 times more weight than the average forum member but there's only 2-3 judges from what I've read. Compare that to the many members that vote, it's not that much. The only reason, the winning cham was the winner cause the judges gave that photo at least 8 judges points more than the forum members top pick. So from the 10 photos that they could have chosen from, all of the judges must have given the winning photo the 3 or 2 point slots. That's something to think about. How often does it happen when the judges all give the same photo the 3 or 2 points slots from top 10 photos.
gregdabender
New Member
well said ! herc for prez !
There seems to be some confusion on how the contest works.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/photo-contest-rules-102/
entry reduction
The judges do not play a part in the initial entry reduction phase. This is a horrible job; it is very time consuming when done properly and must be completed in a short period of time. Finding different judges to do this every month would be difficult and might create more confusion. Currently, if your photo does not make the final list you can ask me why and I will have an answer for you; I keep notes on every entry.
judges
The judges are there for a number of reasons. One that most people have not mentioned is the need to curb abuse and cheating. It's not difficult to register multiple accounts and take advantage of the website. This would not be fair for the contest participants who are playing by the rules. Any change to the contest rules will need to keep this in mind. If you have a good suggestion for this or any other aspect of the contest please let us know.
Members do have a large influence on who wins the contest; saying otherwise is probably a sign that one does not completely understand the current process. So far this year the judging consensus has only agreed with the member vote 50% of the time. However, the overall winner has been consistent with the member vote 80% of the time. This shows that even when independent judges disagree with the member vote, a strong enough consensus to overturn that vote is usually not formed.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/photo-contest-rules-102/
entry reduction
The judges do not play a part in the initial entry reduction phase. This is a horrible job; it is very time consuming when done properly and must be completed in a short period of time. Finding different judges to do this every month would be difficult and might create more confusion. Currently, if your photo does not make the final list you can ask me why and I will have an answer for you; I keep notes on every entry.
judges
The judges are there for a number of reasons. One that most people have not mentioned is the need to curb abuse and cheating. It's not difficult to register multiple accounts and take advantage of the website. This would not be fair for the contest participants who are playing by the rules. Any change to the contest rules will need to keep this in mind. If you have a good suggestion for this or any other aspect of the contest please let us know.
Members do have a large influence on who wins the contest; saying otherwise is probably a sign that one does not completely understand the current process. So far this year the judging consensus has only agreed with the member vote 50% of the time. However, the overall winner has been consistent with the member vote 80% of the time. This shows that even when independent judges disagree with the member vote, a strong enough consensus to overturn that vote is usually not formed.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I wouldnt have thought of this. Its a good point.
The stats are somewhat reassuring.
