Why Not?

[kinyonga]

You said..."its not good enough for me to say "sh*t happens" and leave it at that, If we all took that attitude we'd still be in the dark ages!"...then why not set up a scientific project and hatch some and see why you lose the ones you will likely lose?

You said..."How old were they when they died?"...they died at various ages between birth and 3 months.

You said..."explain 'loss'. did the eggs rot/mould"...generally for veileds, for example, I have 100 % hatchrate of fertile eggs. Out of those, 23 or so out of 25 survive past the 3 month mark.

You said..."went full term but died before hatching etc?"...I said hatchlings...so the ones I'm talking about were already hatched.

Some seemed ok but died suddenly. Some just wouldn't eat or didn't eat enough. Some sat with their eyes closed most of the time.

I have too many other areas that I want to learn about to worry about this...so let me know when you figure it out.

 

[ciafardo 4]

This discusion has become quite hostile to say the leasthahaha

 

[OntarioLizardman]

i dont think that everyone who sells chameleons under the age of 3 months are just in it for the money... honestly how many people actually make any money of raising chameleons? at 35 bucks a peice thats not much of a deal. panthers maybe, but still. Theres a saying about raising Green tree pythons (hard to find a animal under 300 dollars, and thats a very rare price, must are above 1,000) the saying is " you know the best way to make a small fortune raising chondros? start with a large fortune". lol
and theres a fact that chameleons are born 100% ready to take care of themselves, without the need of a mother. just ideas...

 

[OntarioLizardman]

lol look at the turtle website about the "failure to survive syndrome" .. read the disclaimer at the bottom...

http://www.dianeszoo.com/floridaboxes.htm

 

[summoner12]

Rofl Well im glad you responded to let us know you wont be responding! Are you from Ireland by any chance? LOL

Questioning and seeking answers and learning is never pointless!

Sandrachameleon:

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: British Columbia, CANADA
Posts: 831

 

[panthercham]

Sandrachameleon:

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: British Columbia, CANADA
Posts: 831

Well said!

 

[summoner12]

Well said!

If he missed that... wonder how much he is missing in his "Why not?" expedition?

 

[KevinA]

jojackson,

You should probably chill out a little. If your seeking information, stop shooting the messenger.

As for my experience.

Two of my panthers mated. Each from unrelated bloodlines. out of 37 eggs, one baby tried to emerge from the egg the wrong way. Rear end first. It died. Is that something that can be controlled...Probably not, just a random occurrence. Then 6 weeks went by and one baby dropped dead. I believe this is a direct result from eating a bug that was shipped with the crickets(tried to get it out but the cham shot it to fast for me to grab it) then a week or so after, anther baby dropped dead.

Each of these babies that died in the 1-2 month range were among the fasted growing and appeared to be the most healthy of the bunch. They just expired for one reason or another and they were kept in optimal conditions.

At three months, a panther Chameleon is well on it's way to a strong individual. It's plain and simple if you have ever had a hatchling before and observed them. That being said, many of the more notable breeders sell chameleons at 2 months of age, but I wouldn't buy one of them unless I was at their house and observed it and took it home personally.

Last edit:

I was once in a time in my life where I always questioned conventional wisdom and though I had a better way. After a while, I came to realize, some things are the way they are for a reason. But your are right, occasionally, some things are just done the way they are because thats how they have always been done. This is not the case though.

 

[jojackson]

Perhaps clutch sizes are as large as they are because there is an expected die off.
They just don't all always survive.
In captive situations 100% hatch and survival is much more common than it is (I am guessing) in a natural environment.

Thats exactly what I said earlier Brad! and yes, its ok to just know without knowing why, but thats subjective, Its not ok for me because I have a curious mind!

Surely somebody somewhere has published findings of this nature since the 90's?

 

[jojackson]

Sandrachameleon:

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: British Columbia, CANADA
Posts: 831

Rofl!!!! I must be Irish!

You should probably chill out a little. If your seeking information, stop shooting the messenger.

Im not shooting anyone, Just wanting to learn and nobody wanting or able to teach what I want to learn. Im not being hostile at all, If thats your feeling perhaps your too sensitive?
I do realise folk these days are so easily offended, if you ask an unanswerable question.
Could someone not simply say, nobody knows jojackson.?

does anyone know of any online scientific papers anything about chameleons of any species anywhere? pretty please?

 

[jojackson]

Perhaps clutch sizes are as large as they are because there is an expected die off.

Just read that again Brad, If , by 'die off' , you refer to predation , then yes I would agree, however if you mean, 'a number will simply die', that dosent make sense at all, nature is geared toward survival, a lizard of any species will not expend the enormous amounts of energy to produce large numbers of 'defective', 'meant to die' young.

By all accounts, that 'mortality rate' not accounted for by predation, starvation or other outside influences should be generally speaking, very very small. Its nearly always either genetic mismatch/defect, poor physical condition of female prior to, or during egg devolopment . (interference during incubation is an outside influence).

Hence, since in captivity, most 'outside influences' mentioned above are totally elimenated, given a well conditioned , healthy female, robust genetic stock (unrelated breeders from a large gene pool) and correct and careful care of noenates, most captive hatchlings should be healthy, robust and develop as expected, with mortality almost totally the fault of incorrect care or genetic defect or poor condition (weakness) related to the females health during egg development.

I hope thats a clearer statement that makes sense of my questioning the 3 month myth.