Why are the Parsonii Chams so expensive?...

[Eltortu]

I have gone to many reptile shows, but I have never seen one. I have only seen them in pictures, and they resemble, if I may say, a triceratop without the horns. Last month I think it was, someone put one up for sale, on Kingsnake.com, for around $2,000.00. Anyway for that price they better be bilingual...ha!...

 

[Rocky]

The reason they are expensive is because they are rare. Just like any rare and desired animal it's going to make the price tag go wayyyyy up.

Also, they are extremely hard to breed (few people have ever had babies). With that and it being illegal to export them from madagascar the price raises again.

 

[Syn]

You can't import them, and I don't believe they've gotten to F2.

Difficult to breed, and you need to do a lot of research.

 

[Eltortu]

Hmmm...what is so difficult? Don't get it. If you have a pair and you can recreate their natural habitat -like it has been done for other chams- don't you think anyone in this forum could succesfully breed them?...??

 

[Syn]

So you're saying you can recreate their habitat inch for inch, including weather? Temperature? etc?

 

[Rocky]

I can think of a few people here that could do it, but the gestation time / incubation times are longgg. (I don't know exacts, but I'm pretty sure they are about twice as long as most). They are just a lot more specific than your average chameleon.

Chuck with Heroic Chameleons has a nice little group so I would expect to see some from him before anyone else.

 

[Rocky]

So you're saying you can recreate their habitat inch for inch, including weather? Temperature? etc?

That's exactly what people try to do

 

[Nicodemayo]

Im not gonna go into a whole lot of detail but basically they have been banned from import for quite some time. Many people have bred them but the difficulty in producing captive offspring has been getting the female to lay or getting the eggs to hatch. People have hatched here in the us but there have been alot of failed attempts. I have no doubt in my mind that some members on this forum can pull it off but in the most part people are pretty hush hush about it. We're spoiled by our c.calyptratus and our f.pardalis that will breed like rabbits if you let them but there are alot of species out there that arent near as willing or successful in captivity.

 

[Syn]

That's exactly what people try to do

But have they all succeeded 100%?

Also, I would like to say the secret society of Parsonii likes to keep them expensive so no new people can join..

 

[Nicodemayo]

But have they all succeeded 100%?

Also, I would like to say the secret society of Parsonii likes to keep them expensive so no new people can join..

No I think the rarity, and to keep them out of the hands of stupid, careless keepers lol.

 

[Syn]

Gah! Notice the smiley! NOTICE~!

But I agree, the price does keep it out of stupid people, but not out of the hands of stupid RICH people.

 

[Sang]

nico, you couldn't have said it better.



keep in mind back before 1997, parsons were only about 50 bucks or so, and were easly obtainable from what i understand.


it wasn't until the 1997 cites which changed the USA's rules about imports of these animals.



they live for a very long time.
grow to be the largest of any chameleon species.
have some very difficult enviroments to recreate depending on your geographical location in the states.
incubation and hatch time are rediculous *2 years from what i understand*.

 

[laurie]

At the Daytona show a guy had 3 parsonii for sale, I being dumb, almost bought one. I didn't because they need to be in the hands of the few people who are trying to breed them. We do have a few parsonii keepers on the forum and yes they keep pretty quite about their animals. Given that a parsonii can cost $3.000 if you can get one, and that people steal chams a lot cheaper that that, would you want to advertise that you have them? Not unless you are truely to stupid to own one -- for long.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Just an example of some of the problems of reliable breeding of Parsons is to condition the males and females to breed (some believe you must recreate as in the wild), the animals must experience a 2 to 3 month winter period where these chameleons hibernate. If done wrong you miss the opportunity to breed for the year (females may only breed every other year or every third year) or worse lose one of your breeders. There are other problems that occur after if you successfully produce a clutch of Parsons eggs.

They do not breed nearly as often as Panther and Vields and (although not proven) the females may only breed once every couple of years. That scarcity of reliable breeding compared to Panthers and Vields alone drives the price of Parsons chameleon up significantly.

 

[eisentrauti]

Ask bifidus from this forum why it's not so easy to breed them...

 

[chameleonneeds]

You can't import them, and I don't believe they've gotten to F2.

Difficult to breed, and you need to do a lot of research.

Its funny how you say they cannot be imported but still people have some quite young specimens that are WC
And I have noticed that alot of people on this forums and everywhere else have wildcaught madagascan chameleons in the year of 2009.

 

[Sang]

without the proper paperwork its impossible to import from what i understand, its also really really hard to get that paperwork.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

cant import them in the sense that other can be imported with regularity

i got you syn

 

[Montium]

I have gone to many reptile shows, but I have never seen one. I have only seen them in pictures, and they resemble, if I may say, a triceratop without the horns. Last month I think it was, someone put one up for sale, on Kingsnake.com, for around $2,000.00. Anyway for that price they better be bilingual...ha!...

Here's a deal for ya
https://www.chameleonforums.com/pair-orange-eye-parsons-30447/

 

[Chris Anderson]

Wow, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread...

C. parsonii are expensive for a combination of reasons. First, this species is simply a spectacular animal. They are large, majestic, colorful animals with unique skin, intelligence and personalities. They have the potential to live long lives (although rarely do in captivity due to poor husbandry). They are saught after animals in general and as a result have high demand. Secondly, this species is quite rare in captivity which creates high demand and obviously low supply as well.

They are rare in captivity for a number of reasons. First, in 1995, CITES recommended that their export from Madagascar be banned. All CITES party countries are legally bound to these CITES recommendations. No legal C. parsonii have left Madagascar since that time. Next, despite some people claiming that this species is not difficult to keep in captivity, their dietary, water and temperature requirements have resulting in few keepers successfully keeping this species long term. Most of the animals that were imported prior to the ban quickly died off and very very few reproduced. Additionally, this species is very difficult to breed. Getting a pair to breed is extremely different from other species (a child can get Veileds or Panthers to breed with little effort) and is extremely rare. Females have had notorious egg binding issues despite the best of care, nutrition and experience resulting in numerous fatalities. Finally, the eggs take 16-24 months to incubate and most of the eggs die before hatching. Then, if a breeder is able to get to this point, they encounter the typical issues of raising baby chameleons.

C. parsonii have only been bred to F2 a handful of times but not to F3. WC C. parsonii are completely illegal. Imported babies from breeding farms in Asia, which many people question, are available but these have captive bred CITES documents. Any C. parsonii that is WC and not exported from Madagascar before 1995 is illegal, period.

Chris