Who has the answers?

[Charmeleon818]

Ok guys! Today i made a trip to the exotic pet store in my neighbor hood. Reason being, i wanted to buy a basking bulb with a lower wattage ... According to my infrared thermometer the basking spot is currently 83 degrees give or take and low 70s at night time. Anyways i had bought a 50w bulb and the basking spot was 95 degrees!!! My cham was basking laying on his side and displayed wery dark colors so i got scared and put the other bulb back in (which keeps it 83 degrees). So when i went into the pet store today he told me that 95 degrees is good and that if my cham lays on the side and turns dark it means hes loving it.... I didnt make any purchase cuz i felt this contradicted what ive read on cham forums... Any thoughts?! Thank you!

 

[Craigwyatt]

It would help if you told us what kind of chameleon you have. And could you post a pic of your setup.

 

[vgaines]

Next time save yourself some money and use a regular household light bulb for heat. I have never used a "basking bulb" and my veiled is doing fine. I have never seen my guy laying on his side while basking so I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not....

 

[Charmeleon818]

It would help if you told us what kind of chameleon you have. And could you post a pic of your setup.

I have already posted my specs on other posts. Im only concerned about what is mentioned in this post?
Chameleon basking on his side with dark colors...
Is exptic pet store owner misinformed?

 

[Charmeleon818]

Next time save yourself some money and use a regular household light bulb for heat. I have never used a "basking bulb" and my veiled is doing fine. I have never seen my guy laying on his side while basking so I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not....

Yea ive never heard of 95+ degrees being acceptable ... And my cham had never done that before untill i switched it... Thats why i switched his bulb back to the original one right away!!! Also how cold can it get in your house at night?

 

[jamjam]

how your chameleon was basking is normal they tend to flatten out lean to the side and go darker to absorb as much heat as possible theres no warning sign there however 95 still may be on the warmer side of things. with veileds can dip into the 50s over night

 

[Charmeleon818]

how your chameleon was basking is normal they tend to flatten out lean to the side and go darker to absorb as much heat as possible theres no warning sign there however 95 still may be on the warmer side of things. with veileds can dip into the 50s over night

Ok. I just would hate for him to burn up while im gone.. From your personal experience what would be safer? 80-85 daytime temp or 95 possibly 100(at hotteat time of day) for a veiled cham?

 

[Craig94089]

My panther flattens and leans to the side displaying super dark coloration when I have him ouside under natural sun light. They're soaking in the goodness.

But 95 seems a bit on the high side in my opinion. I use a 75 bulb with a dome that has the ability to adjust the temps up or down. I don't think 75 is needed in my region but I wasn't sure if 50 would cut it...learning curve.

 

[Charmeleon818]

My panther flattens and leans to the side displaying super dark coloration when I have him ouside under natural sun light. They're soaking in the goodness.

But 95 seems a bit on the high side in my opinion. I use a 75 bulb with a dome that has the ability to adjust the temps up or down. I don't think 75 is needed in my region but I wasn't sure if 50 would cut it...learning curve.

ok cool! at least i know that is normal ^.^ but can my cham be trusted to move to the bottom of the cage if it gets too hot?? thats the question LOL

 

[Saldarya]

Yes, the chameleon will move in the cage to regulate the body temp assuming you have a large enough cage to create a temperature gradient.

In addition, the type of chameleon you have is relevant to the question you originally asked and it is not our responsibility to peruse your other posts to find the details about your specific animal and set up to help answer a question YOU asked in this post.

 

[Craig94089]

I have quite a bit more research to do in this area, but one of the things I watch for is if the cham is expelling heat by puffing up and opening his mouth like a yawn. Its normal but i dont think should be excessive.

And of course taking into account the distance of the basking spot to the heat source...don't want to burn the poor guy.

 

[jamjam]

gaping to cool down by just opening its mouth is normal. excessive yawning/swallowing shouldnt be

 

[sharp229]

95F is fine for a veiled cham, although you don't want to go over this. However, individual chameleons have different tolerances for temperatures, so it is best to watch him.

If he tries to get farther away from the basking light while still having it on him, it is probably too hot. However, if he flattens himself out like that and turns black, I would say that means he likes it.

According to the care sheet, veiled chameleons should have between 90-95F basking temp:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

 

[jannb]

I think 95 is to hot. I bask my adult males in the high 80's.

 

[fluxlizard]

The pet shop is correct about the meaning of the coloration and behavior.

The chameleon is showing normal behavior for warming up when it is cold. They are really amazing if you think about it. They darken to absorb heat more effectively from light, and they tilt toward the light so more surface area is exposed to the heat source, and then they will even flatten out so their core is spread thin and heats faster.

In nature they do this also.

Temperature guidelines are only that- guidelines. Humans don't decide what temperature the lizard wants and needs. The lizard decides and already knows and uses instincts that have proven effective for countless generations of ancestors survival. Thermoregulation is as basic an instinct for a chameleon as feeding and drinking, and just as essential to it's survival.

Of course, then there are other issues that come into play when the lizard lives in a terrarium.

The first is the ability of the owner to provide the heat the lizard wants in a way that the lizard can understand. Lizards use their core temperature, not their surface temperature to guide their thermoregulatory behavior. So what this means is that if you have a cold terrarium (say 70 degrees background temperature) and then a single hot point under the light where the temperature reads 95, your lizard will most likely burn it's outer surface while waiting for it's core temperature to rise. Skin heats up much faster than the muscle, etc, beneath.

So, if you want to cater to your chameleon's desire for heat, you have to understand how to provide it in a natural way- natures way is to provide a gradient- a gradual change from deep cover where it is cool, to full sun where it is hot. The chameleon has a lot of options between the 2 extremes and moves a bit here and there to regulate temperature, not in and out of full sun and full shade. So a single hot spot in a cold terrarium is like an on/off switch and is very unnatural- lizards will try to use this option if that is all they have, but they don't have the ability to move away when surface temp is too hot and is burning them. Especially if the burning is very mild and occurs over time.

So, if you don't know how to properly set up a heat gradient, you are better off going with temps no higher than upper 80s so burns do not occur.

IMO however, if you aren't sure it is better to learn about thermogradients and figure them out (without risking a lizard- can be done in an empty terrarium).

 

[Carlton]

The chameleon is showing normal behavior for warming up when it is cold. They are really amazing if you think about it. They darken to absorb heat more effectively from light, and they tilt toward the light so more surface area is exposed to the heat source, and then they will even flatten out so their core is spread thin and heats faster.

Temperature guidelines are only that- guidelines. Humans don't decide what temperature the lizard wants and needs. The lizard decides and already knows and uses instincts that have proven effective for countless generations of ancestors survival. Thermoregulation is as basic an instinct for a chameleon as feeding and drinking, and just as essential to it's survival.

Of course, then there are other issues that come into play when the lizard lives in a terrarium.

The first is the ability of the owner to provide the heat the lizard wants in a way that the lizard can understand. Lizards use their core temperature, not their surface temperature to guide their thermoregulatory behavior. So what this means is that if you have a cold terrarium (say 70 degrees background temperature) and then a single hot point under the light where the temperature reads 95, your lizard will most likely burn it's outer surface while waiting for it's core temperature to rise. Skin heats up much faster than the muscle, etc, beneath.

So, if you want to cater to your chameleon's desire for heat, you have to understand how to provide it in a natural way- natures way is to provide a gradient- a gradual change from deep cover where it is cool, to full sun where it is hot. The chameleon has a lot of options between the 2 extremes and moves a bit here and there to regulate temperature, not in and out of full sun and full shade. So a single hot spot in a cold terrarium is like an on/off switch and is very unnatural- lizards will try to use this option if that is all they have, but they don't have the ability to move away when surface temp is too hot and is burning them. Especially if the burning is very mild and occurs over time.

So, if you don't know how to properly set up a heat gradient, you are better off going with temps no higher than upper 80s so burns do not occur.

IMO however, if you aren't sure it is better to learn about thermogradients and figure them out (without risking a lizard- can be done in an empty terrarium).

This is an EXCELLENT post that describes the issue very well! You've got a great answer! It's much better to err on the lower temp side than the upper. At the lower temp your cham will just end up basking a bit longer to reach its core temp. At the higher end he could end up with a thermal burn, secondary infection, and scarring. Not fun for anyone.