white mark on back?

[xojennykins]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?: Unsure because I adopted him for free from a friend who couldnt take him with her to new appt. Didnt know a lot about him because he didnt fully belong to her...but i think the species is veiled, male, age I have no idea. Been in my care since May 2012.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?: Every few days I'd say...he doesnt particularly love it..

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?: Crickets, about 7-8 every other day. Gut-loading with "Cricket Drink".

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?: Just using the Cricket Drink gut-loader.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?: He has a bowl in his age of water, and I mist him twice a day with a spray bottle..I've seen him drink from the bowl&droplets from misting.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?: Not tested for parasites..sometimes looks whitish yellow, sometimes brown.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.: Don't know much of his history..I know he came from a reptile show when he was with previous owner.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?: Screen, unknown dimensions..

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?: 12 hours a day..I think its just a regular reptile basking light?

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?: I have a thermometer on the top of the cage..daily temp when the light is on its between 70 F- 80 F...at night it probably drops to around 60F-65F.

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I don't measure them...I'm assuming any humidity is coming from misting?

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?: No they are fake.

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?: The cage is sitting on the floor in my bedroom..is kind of close to a window.

Location - Where are you geographically located?: Western NY.


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.: He has a strange white marking going down part of his back where his spikes are...it wasn't always there..but recently showed up..I thought it was dead skin shedding but it hasn't came off in about a week or more. Will include picture. Any input would be appreciated!

 

[CarlyMK]

Hi! Do you give him extra mistings to help him shed? From what I can see it just looks like dead skin, but more photo's would always help. I had a 4 month old veiled who had skin stuck there a couple times. Just my opinion though!

More photo's will also help those more experienced with Chameleons be able to identify it better. Hope this helps!

 

[chamillionaire3]

okay a couple things first. most importantly take the water bowl out! chams do not drink standing water and it will grow bacteria and cause major issues! secondly you need to get calcium WITHOUT d3 and calcium with d3 and also a multivitamin. you should be dusting the crickets with the calcium without d3 every feeding. then you need to dust the crickets with the calcium with d3 and the multivitamin once a month. this is very important. lastly you should be gutloading your crickets with fresh veggies and fresh fruits or something like rhapashy bug burger. as for the white mark i think that it is just skin that hasnt come off from a shed. just give him extra mistings and it will come off. but honestly first take out the water bowl!

 

[chamillionaire3]

another thing is that you need a uvb light as well as the basking light! chams cant process calcium without uvb and they will eventually develop mbd which is not pretty. this is just as important as taking the water bowl out.

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum!
You've come to the right place to get good answers and I'm very glad you filled in the answers for how to ask for help.
It could be unshed skin (closer up pictures might allow a more definitive answer) and there are a few reasons why skin that should have dropped off, stays stuck instead. One reason is the need for improved nutrition.

There are a few very important things that stand out as needing to be changed for his health's sake.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?: Unsure because I adopted him for free from a friend who couldnt take him with her to new appt. Didnt know a lot about him because he didnt fully belong to her...but i think the species is veiled, male, age I have no idea. Been in my care since May 2012.

You're right. That's a veiled cham. You can tell if it's a boy or a girl by whether it has spurs (bumps) on the heels of its back legs--or post a closeup of the back legs and someone here will know--if they can't tell already from the picture.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?: Every few days I'd say...he doesnt particularly love it..

You're right about that, too.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?: Crickets, about 7-8 every other day. Gut-loading with "Cricket Drink".

Crickets are part of most chams' diets but they shouldn't be the only food.
Variety is essential for healthy chams.
All feeder insects should be eating a nutritious diet so that your cham gets the most nutrients in his diet.
Cricket drink might just be mostly water to keep the crickets from dehydrating.
The commercial gutloads are often really lacking nutritionwise, anyway.
Here is a good feeder gutloading page:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html
Crickets themselves are lacking in the calcium that chams need to be healthy. For this reason, they and other feeders should be lightly dusted daily with a calcium powder that does not have any vitamin D3 or phosphorus in it on most days.
A good example is this one:
http://www.joshsfrogs.com/food-nutr...s/rep-cal/rep-cal-calcium-without-vit-d3.html
Twice a month, feeders should instead be dusted with a calcium powder with D3, such as this one:
http://www.joshsfrogs.com/food-nutri...al-powder.html
and twice a month feeders should be lightly dusted with a multivitamin such as this:
http://www.joshsfrogs.com/food-nutri...tivitamin.html
These are in addition to feeding the feeders a good diet.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?: Just using the Cricket Drink gut-loader.

Again, supplements are important to your chams's health.
Summary of a good supplement schedule is this:
Feeders should be lightly dusted daily with a calcium powder that does not have any vitamin D3 or phosphorus in it.
Twice a month, feeders should instead be dusted with a calcium powder with D3, such as this one:
http://www.joshsfrogs.com/food-nutr...-cal-calcium-with-vit-d3-original-powder.html
and twice a month feeders should be lightly dusted with a multivitamin such as this:
http://www.joshsfrogs.com/food-nutr...nhancers/rep-cal/herptivite-multivitamin.html
These are in addition to feeding the feeders a good diet.
Unless they are fed an incredibly varied and gutloaded diet, without these supplements chams become severely ill and die.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?: He has a bowl in his age of water, and I mist him twice a day with a spray bottle..I've seen him drink from the bowl&droplets from misting.

It might be enough water or it might not be--depends on how long he is misted for. Retaining shed skin is often an indication that conditions are too dry. You can add a simple dripper to his cage that slowly drips water onto leaves for him to drink off of--much safer than a bowl.
Extra misting with warm water can help him to lose that stuck skin.
Water dishes too often end up either as a cham potty or they just grow bacteria, so they're not recommended.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?: Not tested for parasites..sometimes looks whitish yellow, sometimes brown.

Chams "poop" has 2 parts the first is the urate and this should be very white. the second part is the actual feces and that can vary a bit depending on diet but is typically brown. Yellowish droppings can indicate that he needs more mistings.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.: Don't know much of his history..I know he came from a reptile show when he was with previous owner.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?: Screen, unknown dimensions...

screen cages are good, although they need roomier cages than most people suspect.
I believe that 24"x24"x48" is considered the minimum cage size for an adult veiled cham.

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?: 12 hours a day..I think its just a regular reptile basking light?.

This will cause serious health problems. In order to absorb calcium from their diet chams need a UV light in addition to a basking light for warmth and digestion. the light must be replaced every 6 months to ensure that it emits enough UV, not just lights up.
The proper UV levels are created by bulbs like this:
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...por-bulbs/-/zoo-med-24-repti-sun-50-uvb-bulb/

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?: I have a thermometer on the top of the cage..daily temp when the light is on its between 70 F- 80 F...at night it probably drops to around 60F-65F....

Ambient temps are ok but basking temp is important too, as they need a high enough temperature to digest their food and absorb the nutrients

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I don't measure them...I'm assuming any humidity is coming from misting?...

Being kept in too dry conditions can cause health problems including retaining shed skin as he appears to be doing

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?: No they are fake.

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?: The cage is sitting on the floor in my bedroom..is kind of close to a window....

Being tree dwellers, chams are less stressed out when they are at eye level or higher. Live plants can help keep the humidity up but must be washed clean of pesticides and fertilizers before being used.

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.: He has a strange white marking going down part of his back where his spikes are...it wasn't always there..but recently showed up..I thought it was dead skin shedding but it hasn't came off in about a week or more. Will include picture. Any input would be appreciated!

Again, possibly retained skin/ stuck shed and if you do the things that are recommended, he may have a long healthy life with you.
Glad you care enough to seek out help on the forum.
For more reading specifically about veiled cham care this is very good:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.co.uk/2007/12/veiled-chameleon.html

I'm sure that someone will chime in and correct me if I have missed anything or made any incorrect statements.

I hope this helps you and your cham

 

[xojennykins]

Hey thanks for the input everyone! I have been thinking of taking the water dish out cause I heard it can grow bacteria..wasn't sure if I should cause I see him in/near it sometimes..but I def will though. And his light I'm not sure if it's basking or uv...is there anyway to tell? I'll def take the tips everyone's gave and hope it helps him out. His previous owner knew very little about him and I adopted him because I've always been interested in chameleons. They are more complicated and work then I had thought lol. Ill include a better picture soon..the cricket drink has minimal calcium from what I have read on it..I also have a dusting calcium supplement but havent been using it cause it was killing the crickets..I'll have to dust them right before feeding. Also any tips for cleaning the cage? I hate to take everything out and disrupt his habitat but it seems like the only way to get it fully clean...

 

[Lovereps]

I've always been interested in chameleons. They are more complicated and work then I had thought lol. ...

Yes, their awesomeness does come at a price.
Plenty of people have been given poor advice or none at all, so you're not alone.
it's a good thing you found this forum, since many of us have learned the hard way and can help you to not go that sad route.

And his light I'm not sure if it's basking or uv...is there anyway to tell?...

Yes, a basking light looks like a regular lightbulb or might look like a small floodlight.
The UV bulb is typically a long tube since it's a special fluorescent bulb.
He has to have both to stay healthy.
This is what happens when not given enough calcium, proper IV and basking lighting.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
Variety in the diet is more important than you might have been told.

Ill include a better picture soon..the cricket drink has minimal calcium from what I have read on it..I also have a dusting calcium supplement but havent been using it cause it was killing the crickets..I'll have to dust them right before feeding....

The calcium clogs the crickets breathing passages so dusting immediately beforehand is the best way. Please add variety to his diet as well.

Also any tips for cleaning the cage? I hate to take everything out and disrupt his habitat but it seems like the only way to get it fully clean...

Spot cleaning can help keep the place sanitary and make the intervals for total cleaning longer.

I know that my previous post contained a huge amount of info but there are some things that have to change to prevent serious illness, so I hope you will read the details and note the suggestions.

 

[xojennykins]

So I took out the water bowl today...and the light is definitely a basking light...I'm going to look into UV lights tomorrow on my day off work. I just thought about something, in the summer he was provided mostly natural sunlight..I think thats why I noticed these problems popping up now that its almost winter here..because his light was rarely on..glad I realized now he needs a UV light before it was too late. Also going to buy crickets tonight...going to try and get something else to give him more of a variety. Any suggestions? I've been looking..and I saw dupia roaches..no idea where to get them...and when I first got my cham he had roaches in his cage..but he wouldnt eat them..

 

[Lovereps]

Natural sunlight explains it for sure.
I usually buy the bulbs mailorder because my local shop doesn't have them but you might be lucky and find one nearby.
It was so sad in the years before UV bulbs were invented to watch chameleons go steadily downhill in the winter.
With a varied diet, UV bulb, water drip or more mistings and the other supplements, your cham should be good.
The bulbs need replacing every 6 months. They'll light up just fine but won't put out the UV .


Superworms, silkworms, hornworms,dubias, butterworms, phoenix worms are all good to add.

I can't find enough variety locally so I buy them mailorder in bulk.
Here is one place with a variety of feeders
http://www.mulberryfarms.com/

You can also look on the Classifieds section there are often people selling different feeders in the food section there:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/chameleon-classifieds/

here was a recent thread about diet for a veiled
https://www.chameleonforums.com/best-diet-veiled-34115/

 

[xojennykins]

Here is a closer up of the mark along his back...I'm hoping it is just dry unshedded skin and will come off with the suggested changes..

 

[deadhd5]

So I took out the water bowl today...and the light is definitely a basking light...I'm going to look into UV lights tomorrow on my day off work. I just thought about something, in the summer he was provided mostly natural sunlight..I think thats why I noticed these problems popping up now that its almost winter here..because his light was rarely on..glad I realized now he needs a UV light before it was too late. Also going to buy crickets tonight...going to try and get something else to give him more of a variety. Any suggestions? I've been looking..and I saw dupia roaches..no idea where to get them...and when I first got my cham he had roaches in his cage..but he wouldnt eat them..

Was it direct natural sunlight or through a window? A window will filter out all UVB.

 

[xojennykins]

Well the window was basically always open...I'm assuming the UV rays can pass through the screen? Or no? *feels dumb* lol

 

[xojennykins]

So...I got the UV light yesterday...I spot cleaned his cage, set that up, and fed him some calcium dusted crickets and a few meal worms. Ever since i put the new light up it seems hes mostly staying in the back of his cage where his sleeping spot normally is? He doesnt seem to be as active...also...I can't fit the basking light and UV light above his cage at the same time...does he need both on at the same time? Or maybe need a bigger cage? Ugh Trying to give this guy better care..but I'm a bit confused right now cause he seems less happy than before...also the white mark isnt looking better yet..but maybe it will take a little time.

 

[Lovereps]

I applaud you for making the changes without delay.
You might feel frustrated right now but once he starts perking up, you'll feel a lot better.
As long as he isn't napping during the day, he might just be a little spooked by changes or feeling unwell from the recent lack of calcium absorbtion.
A meal dusted with the multivitamins should also help to get his health back on the right track.
For the monthly vitamins, many people use these
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-herptivite-supplement/
or these
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...-vitamins/-/zoo-med-reptivite-without-d3-2oz/

He is eating, so that is good. The calcium dustings, multivitamin dusting, more mistings and the UVB light will help to restore his levels of calcium and nutrients, which should improve his overall health.

Sorry but it does sounds llike his cage is too small for him since you can't fit the 2 lights on top.
For relatively small creatures they have a strong psychological need for rather large cages. Remember, in the wild they live up in trees and have plenty of room to move about.
He really does need both lights on the cage all the time.
A cage like this would be the size:
http://www.diycages.com/15201/15243.html
or this
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ges/-/24-x-24-x-48-inch-aluminum-screen-cage/


UV will pass through screening but not glass or many plastics.
If you have trouble keeping the humidity above 50%, you can attach plastic sheeting, sold at any hardware store as plastic dropcloth, to cover 2 or 3 sides of the cage.
Live plants help to keep the humidity up, too.

I wouldn't panic about the skin on his back. proper nutrition both calcium and vitamins, are essential to skin health and it is likely to be retained shed.
With the changes you're making, he should improve.
If you're really worried about that area , post close up pictures.
I wouldn't be worried unless it doesn't show any signs of improving over the next week or so after added mistings, a multivitamin dusting, the UVB, plain calcium dustings have had a chance to take effect.
If you have a "gut feeling" that a vet is needed sooner than that, then go for it!

 

[mcbdz]

Hello. Glad to see you are receiving lots of good advice and working hard to care for your new buddy. I know it seems like a lot but, once it is all straight and you get use to it it's just like any other animal. Can you post a picture of his inclosure? and maybe measure it or put something close to it in the pic for reference? Your doing great changing things for him and will just love it when you get finished and see a difference. It's still a lot of changes for him and it will take a few weeks after your all done before you notice the changes in him. They are slow at all things and especially adjusting. Good luck

 

[mgebbie]

That honestly looks like it might be an infection of some sort. I am currently battling a fungal infection and it looks similar to that infection. It could also be bacterial.
I would recommend you seeing a vet, fungal infections can get out of hand really fast, and they are hard to heal.

Good luck, and good job with the little man so far

 

[xojennykins]

Thanks again all! The white mark does seem to be improving a little bit from what I've noticed...I'll see how things go over the next week or so. His activity level is picking back up, I think he was just a bit overwhelmed with the changes I've been making.. His cage I'm unsure of the measurements but I'm guessing around 20-24 in tall by 15-18 wide. So I'll have to look into a new set-up soon so he can be happier in a larger environment..I found a way to put both lights on the cage but they are kinda close to each other..so occasionally throughout the day I'll turn off the basking light for a little while so hes not getting too much at once. Hope thats okay for now until i can get something bigger..