snitz427
Chameleon Enthusiast
Springtails and isopods really arent bad. You cant really see them unless you go looking for them, and even then I cant find them half the time! They keep things spick n span!
Where does their poop go? :(
- Thread starter Loki-Laurason
- Start date
Springtails and isopods really arent bad. You cant really see them unless you go looking for them, and even then I cant find them half the time! They keep things spick n span!
snitz427
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ok yea - that could change my mind!!
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jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
I say this as a friend... this is a hobby with bugs, bacteria, etc. It's the reality of it and most people that can't handle that probably don't have business here. The bacteria growing in a sterile set up is likely to be a whole lot more dangerous than what colonizes dirt. While I leave it up to your choice for how you keep your chameleon(and he's obviously healthy, no argument there), it doesn't do newbies favors by freaking out over every little harmless critter. Springtails in this hobby aren't going to invade your shower. That's spreading fear for no reason. I don't have a problem if you or anyone doesn't want to use them, but let's leave our emotions out of discussions and stick to the facts. we have to be careful about the message we put across these boards. Somebody that could otherwise benefit from a nice bioactive enclosure might freak out reading this because they saw a top cham forum poster mentioning her showers were overrun with springtails. It's like if someone would say hissers would infest your home because they had a German cockroach infestation at one point.
There's just a whole lot of chatter on these forums lately that drowns out some of the more logical responses.
I know I'm being a little grumpy, my issue isn't with anyone here, just with how people might take what is said. I know everyone posting here does a great job caring for their animals, no question. I have no problem at all with people not doing bio, just not a fan of some of the myths and fears surrounding it.
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Ok I will keep my mouth shut on anything pertaining to bio active... I have deleted all of my comments.
Goose502
Chameleon Enthusiast
The springtails in your shower came from nature, not your chameleons cage. Just pour a few cups of bleach down the drain. They’ll go away. I had literally millions in my downstairs shower drain when I built my house. This was noticed before I moved my chameleon in. I actually cultures a few hundred before I killed them. Now I have at least two different types of springtails in my enclosure. Some are white, some are more grey in color. Oh, and to answer an earlier question asked, the clean up crew eat all the shed skin, dead feeders, etc.
MrsM
Avid Member
Honestly, and this may sound a little mean, but I don't intend it that way... if a correct bioactive substrate is too complicated, then someone probably shouldn't have reptiles. I'm not saying that you personally are unable or have to do it, but that it's really not that big of a deal and I believe you're plenty capable, just making it out to be more than it is.
Going a little off topic here, but it gets weird how willingly we accept things like foggers because !natural! hydration and because it's easy to set up, but then those same people will ignore the obvious benefits of bioactivity. I mean, I'm no expert on this, but it seems to be a pretty commonly known thing that exposure to different bacteria is good for living things immune systems, it also offers more of a natural/stimulating environment, keeps things clean where you don't have to worry about harmful bacteria and fungus taking over. I think in the years to come we will see how much we've been depriving our animals by keeping them on white sheets of pvc/newspaper/etc. Just my opinion and I still love my no substrate chamily members
For breeders, people with WC in quarantine, etc I'm not coming at you for having barebottom enclosures, that makes plenty of sense. But for the casual hobbyist, there's so much to gain from having good substrate.
Hey I’m not offended at all I’m going to do bio someday too. I think that my tendency is to want limited variables and add new things slowly when I’m trying to master something... like a juggler adding pins.
That’s just how I arrived at the fact that someone asking where poop went may be in a really beginner place where they need a simpler setup that turns their focus to their chameleon.
But if what I’m reading is right bioactive (done correctly) can eliminate some worries and if someone wants to start that way it’s probably a good idea and totally up to them how to approach it.
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cham_urchin
Established Member
The idea appeals...I'm into plants, so keeping the cage over a large planter makes total sense to me. Bugs? As long as its not cockroaches or giant centipedes I'm cool with bugs.
I enjoyed reading your blog and your site looks great (I'm a designer
What are the "key considerations" you mention? I'm building a stand to hold the cage- now is the time to modify. Thanks
snitz427
Chameleon Enthusiast
The idea appeals...I'm into plants, so keeping the cage over a large planter makes total sense to me. Bugs? As long as its not cockroaches or giant centipedes I'm cool with bugs.
I enjoyed reading your blog and your site looks great (I'm a designer
What are the "key considerations" you mention? I'm building a stand to hold the cage- now is the time to modify. Thanks
If you are building a stand I’d take drainage and waterproofing into account. How will you drain any runoff? And if your stand is wood You’ll need a waterproof barrier and sealant (I used a pond liner and rigid insulation).
For bioactive you need to plan around plants & appropriate soil, drainage, clean up crew, lighting, and water. The trick is to find the right balance. What plants work well in what areas of the eclosure, which insects do best in that climate, if you mist heavily, does your soil drain well?
I love bioactive for many reasons. I like plants and i can keep more tropical plants alive in there. I like watching the clean up crew (when i can find them). My chams are much happier and more active. Its just very appealing all around.
This. Balance is the keyword. It must be perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
So I agree with the Bio guys, I truly believe bio is best. I think there is a bit more naturalizing that should be included in our keeping but that's for another day 
.
Also, I think if Bio is of interest, do it right off the bat. Why? Because bio will slightly alter some aspects of care, like how much water.
Also, and this is the BIG one. You should not turn a Chams cage Bio. You should add a Cham to a Bio Vivarium. What I mean by that is you have to remember that a Bio Viv, is a living thing. The plants are alive, the CuC is alive, the ecosystem you have created is in a way alive.
Other bugs will appear in your bio, and you'll be like how did that get there lol. It will likely go through a Mold phase, where fungus and bad bacteria will take over, for a bit and then good bacteria and CuC will win the war. This is especially true if you sterilize everything (bake the soil, Leaf litter ect). Alot of plants will go through shock, when added to the new Viv they will seemingly die off somewhat. They will be in shock, drastic environment change from their pot in a Garden center.
The point is, it is ideal to have your Bio Viv, up and running for some time before adding the Cham. Let the plants spring back, and start to grow in. Let the CuC get accustomed to their new ecosystem and get their numbers up. Let the good bacteria thrive and kill off the bad. The Cham will add more stress to this Bio, so make sure the Viv is suited to dealing with the stress.
This is also a good time for new keepers to see stuff in action. You can use this time to test water schedules (somewhat) test drainage System, see what temps and humidity is like, day to day, hour to hour. Then when it's time to add the Cham, you will know that everything is perfect.
Also, still might be a good idea to have a second enclosure for the new Cham, temporarily. You should likely Quarantine long enough to get Fecals ect done. As if you add parasites to the Bio, it all has to be scrapped.
Hope this helps
.
. Also, I think if Bio is of interest, do it right off the bat. Why? Because bio will slightly alter some aspects of care, like how much water.
Also, and this is the BIG one. You should not turn a Chams cage Bio. You should add a Cham to a Bio Vivarium. What I mean by that is you have to remember that a Bio Viv, is a living thing. The plants are alive, the CuC is alive, the ecosystem you have created is in a way alive.
Other bugs will appear in your bio, and you'll be like how did that get there lol. It will likely go through a Mold phase, where fungus and bad bacteria will take over, for a bit and then good bacteria and CuC will win the war. This is especially true if you sterilize everything (bake the soil, Leaf litter ect). Alot of plants will go through shock, when added to the new Viv they will seemingly die off somewhat. They will be in shock, drastic environment change from their pot in a Garden center.
The point is, it is ideal to have your Bio Viv, up and running for some time before adding the Cham. Let the plants spring back, and start to grow in. Let the CuC get accustomed to their new ecosystem and get their numbers up. Let the good bacteria thrive and kill off the bad. The Cham will add more stress to this Bio, so make sure the Viv is suited to dealing with the stress.
This is also a good time for new keepers to see stuff in action. You can use this time to test water schedules (somewhat) test drainage System, see what temps and humidity is like, day to day, hour to hour. Then when it's time to add the Cham, you will know that everything is perfect.
Also, still might be a good idea to have a second enclosure for the new Cham, temporarily. You should likely Quarantine long enough to get Fecals ect done. As if you add parasites to the Bio, it all has to be scrapped.
Hope this helps
.
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