Whe should I worry about an infertile gravid female?

[ColorsOfTheWind]

Hey all I think my little girl is now a little lady! Nami is my ~8-9 month old panther chameleon and my first female, so I may be just inexperienced. I noticed a very clear change in her colors around July 7-9 which I believe to be her gravid colors. She has not been bred so would be her first infertile clutch. I noticed she had left several crickets behind at her feeding on July 27th and she has not eaten much since. She is very restless and spending a lot more time in her lower branches has been pacing down onto the sides of plant pots or in some cases down to the floor. She has been showing this behavior since July 29th. I have cameras on her cage and lay bin so I can leave her be and also not worry, but still no attempt to dig or lay. She has a laying bin and several potted plants if she chose. I will admit I wish I could make her lay bin larger, but would have to remove some large plants that provide her a lot of coverage. The bin i have is 10 inches x 9 inches and is already quite snug. She is very active. Strong grip and still wants nothing to do with me which is her normal spicy self. I think this all seems to point to her being gravid and getting ready to lay but I'm worried having never gone through this before. How long is too long to wait if she is still acting okay? Is it worth stressing her by moving the plants for a larger bin or would this create too much trauma at this point? Is it worth setting up a spare cage to accommodate a larger laying bin? Am I just being high anxiety and just need to give her time? Thank you for any input. I adore my spicy little lady and just want to do whatever I can to make sure she is okay.

 

[kinyonga]

Please post some photos of her colours now. It takes about a month to produce a clutch of eggs.


You have a male too…right??? Do they ever see each other?
Are they in the same room?

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

Unfortunately she is in her P.Js right now, it's past lights off. Not sure if yoy can tell as well at night. During the day she is darker than typical with beautiful blue spots and an orange/pink line down her side. (If you cant tell Im a little bit in love with her). I can try to get a picture in the morning before work.

I do have a male and they are in the same room but side by side with an opaque barrier between cages. But it is possible that she has caught sight of him in passing.

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

I forgot I have to go in to work before lights on today. So this is still lights off but awake because I just misted. I will keep an eye on the cham cam today and see if anything changes. I will try to get a more accurate picture when I get home.

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

She went into her laying bin and few times today but mostly seemed to just walk across it and then change her mind. She is on her sleeping branch now just hanging out. The pacing always subsides in the evening.

 

[kinyonga]

Don’t let her see you watching her when she’s showing interest in her bin…and especially if she’s digging. Cover the cage so she can have privacy.
Looks like she may be getting close to laying.
Good luck…hope it goes well.

This is how it should go…she may lay a couple of test holes before choosing one to lay the eggs in. She may go back up to the branches in between digs. She will dig it until she’s happy that it is right…then turn around, usually in the evening and lay the eggs…she will fill the hole in and tamp it down and return to the branches, hungry and thirsty.

After she lays the eggs, let us know. We can tell you what to do next.

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

She started digging around noon and has been digging on and off for the last 3 hours. I am not sure if she has laid yet but I am just leaving her be.

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

Update: I am pretty sure she has laid. Should I leave the bin for a few days before removing it? Should I remove it tonight when she is asleep?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Update: I am pretty sure she has laid. Should I leave the bin for a few days before removing it? Should I remove it tonight when she is asleep?

I recommend moving the newly laid eggs into incubation containers ASAP! You do not want to move or over handle developing eggs.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

The eggs are not fertile. So I am not worried about handling the eggs.

 

[kinyonga]

Was she sitting butt down in the hole for a while?

Did she fill the hole in? Tamp it down?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The eggs are not fertile. So I am not worried about handling the eggs.

Old habit of mine and golden rule I do not through out eggs until they have molded over and gone bad. Though unlikely parthenogenesis does happen in reptiles.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

It does not seem like she laid yet. She did dig a tunnel and has continued to work on it throughout today as well. As far as I can tell there has been no attempt to fill in the hole but I will sneak up there after lights out and take another look. She will spend an hour or more in her hole at a time.

 

[kinyonga]

Like I said…
“This is how it should go…she may lay a couple of test holes before choosing one to lay the eggs in. She may go back up to the branches in between digs. She will dig it until she’s happy that it is right…then turn around, usually in the evening and lay the eggs…she will fill the hole in and tamp it down and return to the branches, hungry and thirsty.”

If she sees you watching her when she’s digging, she willlikely abandon the hole and that can push her towards egg binding…so this is very important.

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

She is digging in a different area today but still digging. Im so worried about her but I don't know what to do. We checked the soil consistency last night and it felt okay still. Is there anything I should do? She has been not eating and looking for a spot to lay for about a week now.

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

Her sleeping colors are dark today. 8m very worried. Any advice?

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

She laid today! We found 32 well calcified, beautiful appearing eggs. My camera went out for about 4 hours today. I think she knew what she was doing. She really wanted to make sure I wasn't watching. Im so glad that she got them out of there. Hopefully she is feeling better and ready for a meal in the morning.

 

[ehdee6]

I'd recommend leaving the lay bin in there for an extra day or two, JUST in case she's not done... I've heard they can lay and then stilI retain some.... I hope she had a successful first lay!!! I'm dreading when it comes to my females first time.

 

[ColorsOfTheWind]

We removed the eggs from the bin but put the bin back in the cage. I feel so much better now though, and I bet she does too. I think I've learned some things for the future and now that I know what to expect, hopefully I won't freak out as bad next time. I never knew I could love something so much that hates me. Lol.

 

[ehdee6]

it's amazing how much we love these little stinkers! Please keep us updated... I'm also still learning vicariously about our little female chams. Mine is about 9 to 11 months, and *knocks on wood* still hasn't shown solid gravid signs. Trying my best to follow the golden rules...