What's wrong with my jackson cham??

[jensca]

I'm a newbie, and have some concerns about my cham...

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Jackson, male, about 10 months old. I've had him for about 8 months.

Handling - I handle him a little bit, once a week when I clean out the cage. If it's nice and sunny, occasionally I take him outside for some fresh air and sunlight.

Feeding - Mostly crickets, about a dozen large every other day. I have a small container for the crickets, so he eats them at his leisure. I've been gut-loading them with a piece of carrot and potato (probably not enough?) Yesterday I added fish flakes and let the crickets eat for a good 2 hours before I fed him. Occasionally I feed him meal worms or wax worms, but I've found it difficult to keep the worms from dying after a week or so in the fridge.

Supplements - I dust the crickets every other time I feed him (2-3 times per week). The brand is Reptivite w/ D3.

Watering - I mist the cage several times a day with dechlorinated water. He prefers to drink right from the sprayer it seems - he literally comes right up to the screen when I start to mist the cage, and lets me spray it right into his mouth. He also drinks from the leaves, but not as often.

Fecal Description - His droppings are formed, oval shape, slightly moist and dark brown. Sometimes I find clear goo hanging from one of the leaves or on the tray at the bottom - I have no idea what this is. His urate is a combination of white, yellow, and sometimes a little orange at the end. I've read that this indicates dehydration, and have been since misting him more often. Sometimes I mist him with a humidifying spray (water, aloe vera, vitamin b1 & b3, & emollients).

I've never had him tested for parasites.

History - I have no previous information about my chameleon.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - He is currently in a 12x18x18 screen cage (which I know is too small), but my boyfriend is currently building him a 36x24x24 screen cage.

Lighting - I'm using a Repta-Sun 5.0 Full Spectrum UVB light. It's an 18" fluorescent lamp/15 watt. The light is on for about 12-13 hours - 9am to 9pm or 10pm. I'm not using a nighttime bulb.

Temperature - The temp is 65 at the cage floor and 80 in the basking spot. I use a 100W ceramic heat bulb that is usually on 24hrs a day. When it's really warm out, I turn it off at night. The lowest overnight temp is approx. 65-70. There is a thermometer on the side of the cage.

Humidity - The humidity is usually at 50. I have trouble getting it much higher than that. I have a fogger that runs constantly on a low-med setting. My house is very cool and dry, and I had issues keeping up the humidity until I set up the fogger about 4 months ago. There is a hygrometer on the side of the cage as well.

Plants - There are no live plants in the cage. Only artificial plants and vines. There are 2 large and 2 medium pieces of wood as well, which get soaked from the fogger. I try to let them dry out a bit each week when I clean out the cage, to prevent them from getting moldy.

Placement - The cage is in my living room, in a high traffic area. It is not near any fans or vents. Once the bigger cage is built, we plan on moving him to a less stressful area. The cage is about currently about 5.5 feet from the floor.

Location - I live in northern New Jersey, Bergen County.

Current Problem - I have quite a few concerns. Lately, he has his eyes closed sometimes during the day. I've also noticed him opening his mouth very wide for short periods of time - almost like a prolonged yawn. He is not sluggish at all, and seems to be eating and drinking well - He happily ate 2 spiders today. He also doesn't appear to be malnourished, but maybe a little on the thin side. He has no obvious sores and his eyes look healthy. I have noticed what seems like slight cracking of the skin on his shoulders. He also falls a lot when he's climbing along the sides of the cage, on the screen. I'm not sure if this is just clumsiness or if it's an underlying problem.

My guess is that his problems are stemming from a combination of things, such as the cage being too small, in a bad area, not getting enough nutrition from the crickets, etc. But I wanted to consult the forum, since I'm new to this, and hopefully get some good advice.

 

[Chase]

You are giving him WAY to much supplements. Jackson's do not need that much D3 from what I have read. You should buy some of the calcium WITHOUT D3, he can have this more, but like I said l, not that much.

Also, adding live plants will help with humidity. How often do you spray him? And for how long?

Also, you say he ate two spiders, why are you feeding him spiders?

You may want to not use the ceramic light too, he may be too hot. Try taking it away, and seeing if he shows better behavior having it cooler(as well as the advice I have posted above).

 

[Elizadolots]

I agree that it's probably a combination of things. I think you should turn the heat lamp off at night unless your house gets really cold at night. They benefit from a drop in temperatures at night.

Opening his mouth is often a sign that they need to cool down. Stopping the heat lamp at night might be enough to fix that.

The recommended schedule for supplements here is usually

calcium without D3 every day
Vitamins without D3 2 times a month
Vitamins with D3 2 times a month

But, for a Jackson's even that might be too much.


The big concerns I see in what you've described are the closed eyes during the day (no, they don't nap) and falling. It's possible that he's over supplemented. Too much of a vitamin can be as bad as not enough.

He's a cutie!

 

[Cainschams]

I'm a newbie, and have some concerns about my cham...

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Jackson, male, about 10 months old. I've had him for about 8 months.

Handling - I handle him a little bit, once a week when I clean out the cage. If it's nice and sunny, occasionally I take him outside for some fresh air and sunlight.

Feeding - Mostly crickets, about a dozen large every other day. I have a small container for the crickets, so he eats them at his leisure. I've been gut-loading them with a piece of carrot and potato (probably not enough?) Yesterday I added fish flakes and let the crickets eat for a good 2 hours before I fed him. Occasionally I feed him meal worms or wax worms, but I've found it difficult to keep the worms from dying after a week or so in the fridge.

That is quite a bit of crickets to be feeding him at this age. I would slack off to around 6 appropriate sized feeders every two to three days. Also potatoes are not the greatest thing to gutload with. They are good to maintain a cricket colony however you want them to disperse the potato and eat other things like dark green vegetables, carrots, fruits etc. High protein can cause your chameleon to get gout. Also I would not gutload with fish flakes either.

Supplements - I dust the crickets every other time I feed him (2-3 times per week). The brand is Reptivite w/ D3.

As was said this is too much D3. I would get a calcium supplement without D3 and without phosphorus. Dust very very lightly.

Watering - I mist the cage several times a day with dechlorinated water. He prefers to drink right from the sprayer it seems - he literally comes right up to the screen when I start to mist the cage, and lets me spray it right into his mouth. He also drinks from the leaves, but not as often.

Fecal Description - His droppings are formed, oval shape, slightly moist and dark brown. Sometimes I find clear goo hanging from one of the leaves or on the tray at the bottom - I have no idea what this is. His urate is a combination of white, yellow, and sometimes a little orange at the end. I've read that this indicates dehydration, and have been since misting him more often. Sometimes I mist him with a humidifying spray (water, aloe vera, vitamin b1 & b3, & emollients).

I would stick to plain water. Set him up with a dripper if you do not think he is drinking enough along with the regular mistings.

I've never had him tested for parasites.

History - I have no previous information about my chameleon.

How long have you had him?

Cage Info:

Cage Type - He is currently in a 12x18x18 screen cage (which I know is too small), but my boyfriend is currently building him a 36x24x24 screen cage.

Lighting - I'm using a Repta-Sun 5.0 Full Spectrum UVB light. It's an 18" fluorescent lamp/15 watt. The light is on for about 12-13 hours - 9am to 9pm or 10pm. I'm not using a nighttime bulb.

Temperature - The temp is 65 at the cage floor and 80 in the basking spot. I use a 100W ceramic heat bulb that is usually on 24hrs a day. When it's really warm out, I turn it off at night. The lowest overnight temp is approx. 65-70. There is a thermometer on the side of the cage.

The daytime temps are good however I would turn the heat bulb off at night. They can withstand very cool temps and its detrimental to montane species health to get these cooler temps at night. Ideally 60 degrees and lower for a jacksonii

Humidity - The humidity is usually at 50. I have trouble getting it much higher than that. I have a fogger that runs constantly on a low-med setting. My house is very cool and dry, and I had issues keeping up the humidity until I set up the fogger about 4 months ago. There is a hygrometer on the side of the cage as well.

The low humidity can be one reason why he is slightly dehydrated. For a species such as jacksonii you want around 70% humidity daytime and very high to 100% at night. You can use the fogger or get a nice humidifier.

Plants - There are no live plants in the cage. Only artificial plants and vines. There are 2 large and 2 medium pieces of wood as well, which get soaked from the fogger. I try to let them dry out a bit each week when I clean out the cage, to prevent them from getting moldy.

Live plants will help bring the humidity up inside the enclosure. You can also try covering 3 sides of the enclosure with a solid material. This will help hold the humidity in. You want the cage to dry out between each mistings. Overly wet conditions will cause mold and fungus which is not good for your chameleon.

Placement - The cage is in my living room, in a high traffic area. It is not near any fans or vents. Once the bigger cage is built, we plan on moving him to a less stressful area. The cage is about currently about 5.5 feet from the floor.

I would definitely move him as quickly as possible to a low traffic area.

Location - I live in northern New Jersey, Bergen County.

Current Problem - I have quite a few concerns. Lately, he has his eyes closed sometimes during the day. I've also noticed him opening his mouth very wide for short periods of time - almost like a prolonged yawn. He is not sluggish at all, and seems to be eating and drinking well - He happily ate 2 spiders today. He also doesn't appear to be malnourished, but maybe a little on the thin side. He has no obvious sores and his eyes look healthy. I have noticed what seems like slight cracking of the skin on his shoulders. He also falls a lot when he's climbing along the sides of the cage, on the screen. I'm not sure if this is just clumsiness or if it's an underlying problem.

Keeping his mouth open could be a respiratory infection or him just thermoregulating. Do you notice any wheezing or popping sounds with excesive saliva in the mouth? Personally I feed spiders and have had no problems with doing so. Just know what types you are feeding off. Closing of his eyes is not good they should not be napping in the day time. SLight cracking of skin could be he is too dry or some type of fungal issue is going on. I would take him to a vet to have some tests run on him. Clumsiness could be caused by many things. One concern I would have is from gutloading with potato. As I said high protein diets can cause gout in chameleons which will appear like arthritis with swelling of joints, decreased mobility, etc. Also a ton of supplements especially with D3 can cause problems.

My guess is that his problems are stemming from a combination of things, such as the cage being too small, in a bad area, not getting enough nutrition from the crickets, etc. But I wanted to consult the forum, since I'm new to this, and hopefully get some good advice.

As I said I would get him to a vet to have some tests done. It seems you know that your husbandry is not completely up to par. You need to fix humidity, supplements, feeding schedule, and gutloading regimen ASAP if you want him to live a long healthy life.

 

[Chase]

I agree that it's probably a combination of things. I think you should turn the heat lamp off at night unless your house gets really cold at night. They benefit from a drop in temperatures at night.

Opening his mouth is often a sign that they need to cool down. Stopping the heat lamp at night might be enough to fix that.

The recommended schedule for supplements here is usually

calcium without D3 every day
Vitamins without D3 2 times a month
Vitamins with D3 2 times a month

But, for a Jackson's even that might be too much.


The big concerns I see in what you've described are the closed eyes during the day (no, they don't nap) and falling. It's possible that he's over supplemented. Too much of a vitamin can be as bad as not enough.

He's a cutie!

I think that schedule is still to frequent.

I give Calcium WITHOUT D3 once every two weeks
Calcium WITH D3 once a month
Multivitamin WITH D3 once a month

 

[Slobodan]

Maybe i could help a bit,...

When i got my little one he was also keeping his eyes, sometimes just one, closed during the day...I watched him for a few ours and i noticed that hi does it only under basking spot. So, i changed the lights in weaker one and now everything is ok.
Also, i agree with the other on 'mixtuer of everything theory' but the fact that your ch. is falling is pointer that he is weak.
When i got my lady she was realy sick and weak and i fed her with 3 kinds of insects and all gutloaded.
Dubia, crickets and Fobas worms (sorry but in my country thats how they are called. ) And also i was giving her latice and apples. Now she has a boxer fist! )) She is realy strong.
And if, as you say that your terrarium is small, she dont have a large space maybe she dont have colder part in terrarium.
I was told that chams shuld have hoter part (basking spot) and colder pqart in the other part of terrarium...
So maybe you could make one for your cham...

I hope i was helpfull and sorry for bad english! ))

 

[xanthoman]

the fridge.

Supplements - I dust the crickets every other time I feed him (2-3 times per week). The brand is Reptivite w/ D3.

. Sometimes I mist him with a humidifying spray (water, aloe vera, vitamin b1 & b3, & emollients).







Lighting - I'm using a Repta-Sun 5.0 Full Spectrum UVB light. It's an 18" fluorescent lamp/15 watt. The light is on for about 12-13 hours - 9am to 9pm or 10pm. I'm not using a nighttime bulb.

Temperature - The temp is 65 at the cage floor and 80 in the basking spot. I use a 100W ceramic heat bulb that is usually on 24hrs a day. When it's really warm out, I turn it off at night. The lowest overnight temp is approx. 65-70. There is a thermometer on the side of the cage.

Humidity - The humidity is usually at 50. I have trouble getting it much higher than that. I have a fogger that runs constantly on a low-med setting. My house is very cool and dry, and I had issues keeping up the humidity until I set up the fogger about 4 months ago. There is a hygrometer on the side of the cage as well.


My guess is that his problems are stemming from a combination of things, such as the cage being too small, in a bad area, not getting enough nutrition from the crickets, etc. But I wanted to consult the forum, since I'm new to this, and hopefully get some good advice.

the biggest issue is your supplementation, reptivite is a multivite with preformed vitamin A and should only be given sparingly every 6 weeks or so (herptivite would be better than reptivite, and actually there are lower dosage products that would be safer to use than either one of those). so he is essentially getting 20-30x more multivite than he should. personally i would discontinue all multivite for the next several months. and give him only plain calcium 2-3x a week. maybe calcium with d3 once every 2 weeks, or less if he is getting natural sun. you shouldnt mist him with anything other than plain water. jacksons are quite comfortable in temps down to 60* and are able to tolerate short term temps much lower. nightime heat is not required or desired. a 30 watt incandescent house bulb for a basking bulb is all the heat that is needed. i would get rid of the 100watt heat emitter altogether , he should have a digital temp sensor at his basking spot. a substantial drop in nightime temps is considered a good thing. humidity is just a function of moisture, a good target humidity would be around 70%, you could raise the humidity with more frequent mistings , more live lush plants, frequently misted, will help raise and stabilize humidity, you can also increase humidity by hanging a white plastic kitchen trash bag over a portion of the outside of his cage. it is harder to maintain humidity in a smaller screen cage. he should also have a digital hygrometer (humidity guage) you can get a decent digital thermometer/hygrometer for $20. jacksons are not generally considered a good starter chameleon , their care requirements are fairly specific and they are not very tolerant of care that is outside of those requirements. they are also less tolerant to over-supplementation than many other chams, if you wish to keep him healthy long term, then you will need to learn about those care requirements in depth (from several different sources) including all aspects of his care. http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/pettys/jacksons_care.html it is not likely that you will be able to keep him healthy by just occasionally posting for advice when problems arise. jmo

 

[jensca]

You are giving him WAY to much supplements. Jackson's do not need that much D3 from what I have read. You should buy some of the calcium WITHOUT D3, he can have this more, but like I said l, not that much.

Also, adding live plants will help with humidity. How often do you spray him? And for how long?

Also, you say he ate two spiders, why are you feeding him spiders?

You may want to not use the ceramic light too, he may be too hot. Try taking it away, and seeing if he shows better behavior having it cooler(as well as the advice I have posted above).

Thank you so much for the advice. I will certainly limit the D3 supplement to once a month now, as well as implement the other advice regarding vitamins.

LinkinParkRulez08: to answer your questions - I mist the cage at least 4 times a day, and I lightly spray him as well. I mist until all of the leaves are wet, but not completely soaked. That way the droplets don't run off and he can drink if he wants.

I don't normally feed him spiders - today was a first. I've read in other places that they eat spiders, so I thought I'd give him a treat. They were, of course, non-venomous spiders.

If I take away the ceramic heat lamp, what should I use as a heat source? Without it, the temp at the top of the cage is only about 70 or so.

 

[jensca]

I agree that it's probably a combination of things. I think you should turn the heat lamp off at night unless your house gets really cold at night. They benefit from a drop in temperatures at night.

Opening his mouth is often a sign that they need to cool down. Stopping the heat lamp at night might be enough to fix that.

The recommended schedule for supplements here is usually

calcium without D3 every day
Vitamins without D3 2 times a month
Vitamins with D3 2 times a month

But, for a Jackson's even that might be too much.


The big concerns I see in what you've described are the closed eyes during the day (no, they don't nap) and falling. It's possible that he's over supplemented. Too much of a vitamin can be as bad as not enough.

He's a cutie!

Thank you! I'm going to change his vitamin intake, and limit the D3. He will be in the new cage very soon, so hopefully that will help as well.

 

[jensca]

As I said I would get him to a vet to have some tests done. It seems you know that your husbandry is not completely up to par. You need to fix humidity, supplements, feeding schedule, and gutloading regimen ASAP if you want him to live a long healthy life.

I've had him for about 8 months...

I don't think I could possibly get the humidity up to 100% at night. My house is extremely dry. I put plastic wrap around 3 sides of the cage today to see if it would hold in some of the moisture...but it still allows for plenty of airflow. Once I get him in the larger cage, I plan on adding live plants.

 

[Chase]

Thank you so much for the advice. I will certainly limit the D3 supplement to once a month now, as well as implement the other advice regarding vitamins.

LinkinParkRulez08: to answer your questions - I mist the cage at least 4 times a day, and I lightly spray him as well. I mist until all of the leaves are wet, but not completely soaked. That way the droplets don't run off and he can drink if he wants.

I don't normally feed him spiders - today was a first. I've read in other places that they eat spiders, so I thought I'd give him a treat. They were, of course, non-venomous spiders.

If I take away the ceramic heat lamp, what should I use as a heat source? Without it, the temp at the top of the cage is only about 70 or so.

He would be fine, and would love it. Jackson's are a montane species, meaning they like it cook, and humid. For both of my Jacksons, their cages don't get above 75. One reason, they are both in a low traffic room, where I only go in two to three times a day to spray.

 

[Elizadolots]

If you can have plants in terracotta rather than plastic pots, that will help with the humidity too. It does make them harder to "hang" because of the weight, but maybe you can have some pots on the floor of the cage.

You want airflow. I think you'll need to experiment with things to see what works best in your house.

 

[jensca]

the biggest issue is your supplementation, reptivite is a multivite with preformed vitamin A and should only be given sparingly every 6 weeks or so (herptivite would be better than reptivite, and actually there are lower dosage products that would be safer to use than either one of those). so he is essentially getting 20-30x more multivite than he should. personally i would discontinue all multivite for the next several months. and give him only plain calcium 2-3x a week. maybe calcium with d3 once every 2 weeks, or less if he is getting natural sun. you shouldnt mist him with anything other than plain water. jacksons are quite comfortable in temps down to 60* and are able to tolerate short term temps much lower. nightime heat is not required or desired. a 30 watt incandescent house bulb for a basking bulb is all the heat that is needed. i would get rid of the 100watt heat emitter altogether , he should have a digital temp sensor at his basking spot. a substantial drop in nightime temps is considered a good thing. humidity is just a function of moisture, a good target humidity would be around 70%, you could raise the humidity with more frequent mistings , more live lush plants, frequently misted, will help raise and stabilize humidity, you can also increase humidity by hanging a white plastic kitchen trash bag over a portion of the outside of his cage. it is harder to maintain humidity in a smaller screen cage. he should also have a digital hygrometer (humidity guage) you can get a decent digital thermometer/hygrometer for $20. jacksons are not generally considered a good starter chameleon , their care requirements are fairly specific and they are not very tolerant of care that is outside of those requirements. they are also less tolerant to over-supplementation than many other chams, if you wish to keep him healthy long term, then you will need to learn about those care requirements in depth (from several different sources) including all aspects of his care. http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/pettys/jacksons_care.html it is not likely that you will be able to keep him healthy by just occasionally posting for advice when problems arise. jmo

Thank you...it seems I was terribly misinformed by other websites, as well as the guy I bought him from. I will hold off on the vitamins for a while, and just give him the calcium - as you suggested. And as I said above, I wrapped 3 sides of the cage with plastic wrap to try and hold in the humidity. I'm going to keep the heat lamp off for a bit and monitor the temperature. I'll also replace it with the house bulb.

 

[kinyonga]

The gaping could also be due to kidney damage from too much D3...but you need a vet to tell you for sure.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

The more plants you can comfortably fit in the cage the better off he will be aas far as humidity concerns. I am easily able to maintain over 60% hum in my cages using spraying and live plants. So get him moved in the new cage asap. And radically alter your supps as others have stated.

 

[xanthoman]

Thank you...it seems I was terribly misinformed by other websites, as well as the guy I bought him from.

this is why its important to educate yourself in depth from a multitude of sources. there are some givens, but, even among experienced keepers, opinions vary greatly, and no one person, website, or care sheet, has all of the answers. there is no guaranteed specific formula for success, what works well for one person, may not work as well for another , there are just too many variables. the only way around all of the varying information, is to educate yourself in depth from a wide variety of sources until you are able and comfortable to make your own informed decisions. dont get me wrong the forum, is almost a neccessity, and it holds the largest knowledge base for care of captive chameleons, but even here opinions arent always the same. that being said, gaping would normally be a sign of overheating in a healthy animal. i definitely agree with kinyonga that kidney damage is a possibility, too much D3 can calcify and damage organs. so, given the extreme over-supplementation indicated, it would be a good idea to get a blood panel while at the vet. just one last word of caution , chams are highly unique and specialized animals, and many times even exotic vets that see other reptiles arent all that experienced with chameleons, so a try to find a vet that has chameleon experience. jmo / edit; as a general rule, healthy jacksons should not sleep during the day, and a healty jacksons with ample climbing structure, almost never falls , so it is likely that there are underlying problems brewing.

 

[Chase]

this is why its important to educate yourself in depth from a multitude of sources. there are some givens, but, even among experienced keepers, opinions vary greatly, and no one person, website, or care sheet, has all of the answers. there is no guaranteed specific formula for success, what works well for one person, may not work as well for another , there are just too many variables. the only way around all of the varying information, is to educate yourself in depth from a wide variety of sources until you are able and comfortable to make your own informed decisions. dont get me wrong the forum, is almost a neccessity, and it holds the largest knowledge base for care of captive chameleons, but even here opinions arent always the same.

I couldn't agree more. This was being discussed in the thread about Parsons, but hold true with all species. Make sure you do hours of research BEFORE commits to a new animal