whats wrong with monty.. plz help

[eirlys153]

i have had 4 pygmy chameleons for 4 months when i had them they were all roughly the same size...we beleive to have 2 males and 2 females. 3 have grown fine but the 1 male doesnt seem to have grown at all hes around half the size of the others.. after close examination we found that he was not eating.. hunting but he would always miss.. resulting in him getting weaker... we decided to hand feed him crickets that we had just killed.. he would open his mouth with no problems and eat..we supliment the crickets with calcium and give him 2 undusted and 1 with extra calcium on as the last as he hates calcium...but recently he does not want to eat (spitting the crickets out) and seems to have very low almost no grip. his eyes are sunken as if he is dehydrated but they get misted around 3 times a day. he is latley gaping his mouth wide open for no reason, and staying there for long periods with his mouth slightly open with his tounge showing and a brown small lump has appeard on his side...

SETUP...
they have a 2 foot viv coverd in plants
a water fall
lots of vents
vermicalite a couple of inches deep as substrate (also we are finding monty in the substrate all the time and its all over him as if he has been rolling round in it)

i know its a long paragraph but i would be extremly grateful if anybody could help... thanx

 

[eirlys153]

forgot 2 add...

they have a heat bulb in there 2

 

[Lizardlover]

I dont know much about pygs but DEFINETLy remove the water fall, and pygs arent like normal chams. they dont need as much ventilation and shorter cages. i think you setup needs tweaking but wait for someone who knows more about pygs

 

[Dunnigan]

How hot is it. From what research i have found pygs like temps in the mid to low (preferably low) 70's with a temp drop at night. So the heat lamp may not be necessary

Were the WC or CB? If they are WC there is no gaurentee on age and they dont live too long to begin with.

If he is dehydrated try and feed him water with a needless syringe, dont force it town his throat, just drip it on his nose untill he starts drinking.

 

[Julirs]

Vermiculite? As in the stuff used for plants? That is not a substrate and should be gotten rid of immediately. When eaten vermiculite expands in the stomach and he could be impacted. By what you are saying he is probably a goner. I started out with a 2 males and 2 females and the same thing you are describing happened-the one male was dominant and stressed the other. You should be using soil or coconut fiber (bed-a-beast) for substrate.

Also-what are your temps?

 

[OntarioLizardman]

welcome to the forums!!!!

1. what are the demensions of the cage? even thought pigs are known to be semi-social, you can DEFINETLY over do it if there is not enough room AND hiding spots.. aggresion is seen between several species, especially between males.
2. what are the temps? i doubt youll need the heat lamp, i would take it off immediatly unless you temps are under 60 or so.
3. take out the vermiculite
4. what species of pygs are they?
5. wats the relative humitidty for the cage?
6. how often are you spraying? and is their condensation on the sides for an extended amount of time ( several hours)

as i said welcome to the forums, and if you can post some pics of your lil guys!

 

[eirlys153]

re

Vermiculite? As in the stuff used for plants? That is not a substrate and should be gotten rid of immediately. When eaten vermiculite expands in the stomach and he could be impacted. By what you are saying he is probably a goner. I started out with a 2 males and 2 females and the same thing you are describing happened-the one male was dominant and stressed the other. You should be using soil or coconut fiber (bed-a-beast) for substrate.

Also-what are your temps?

i have used vermiculite because it has been recomemded by our local vets and the reptile keepers were we purchased the pygs they said that this is a great egg layin substrate.. i dont think that he could have injested any thing cz hes been this size for months hes reali small... it is onli the last few weeks were having problems.. im just thinking if he had he would have died sooner

sorry i should have sed that i dont use a heat lamp.. my bad.. i have an energy saving bulb which keeps the temp in the low 70's as it is quite cold here and it gets turned off at night
thanks

 

[eirlys153]

welcome to the forums!!!!

1. what are the demensions of the cage? even thought pigs are known to be semi-social, you can DEFINETLY over do it if there is not enough room AND hiding spots.. aggresion is seen between several species, especially between males.
2. what are the temps? i doubt youll need the heat lamp, i would take it off immediatly unless you temps are under 60 or so.
3. take out the vermiculite
4. what species of pygs are they?
5. wats the relative humitidty for the cage?
6. how often are you spraying? and is their condensation on the sides for an extended amount of time ( several hours)

as i said welcome to the forums, and if you can post some pics of your lil guys!

its 2 foot by 2foot by 2foot.. the males dont reali bother with eachother as monty is usually not very active and they all virtually stick to a corner each..soz i should have sed i dont use a heat lamp i have just an energy saving bulb to keep the temp at the low 70's, theyr bearded pygs, humidity is at 80 ish..they get sprayd around 3 times a day but now ur saying it the condensation is always there the windows are always foggy nd plants damp.. im thinking of bacteria now uv mentiond it but they live in leaf litters in the wild and low shrubs they wud always b damp...thanks

 

[Julirs]

Either your Vet isn't that smart or you misunderstood (NO OFFENSE)-but vermiculite is a good incubating substrate-NOT a laying substrate or a bottom substrate-seriously-remove immediately!

 

[OntarioLizardman]

hm... kinda confused lol by the wording. but maybe the reason you dont see the males bothering each other is maybe they did bother each other earlier, and the monty was the loser now he just sticks to one corner.
humidity is more of a tricky subject to figure out, becuase you want the humidity high, but you definetly dont want it sopping wet everywhere. for me a like to cycle humidity a little bit, letting the humidity rise to 90% or so then throughout the day falling down from anywhere better 60% to 80%. i tell you that moss is very very helpful in realising water into the air.
it might help you to spray less, but cover up the most of the ventilation slits. this will help the water to leave the substrate and not escape.
anyways if i was in your position i would probrally put monty in a differrent tank by himself ( fully planted, etc) doesnt have to be particularly large. but ether way if he is sick or if he is being bullied, putting him by himself should hopefully help. pigs have short lifes and stress easy. anyways good luck! and i hope monty turns out alright!

 

[dave101]

yes i would remove vermiculite right away along with the waterfall

 

[eirlys153]

i mean that non of them stick together they all pick a space hidden away from eachother but that could be the case that he is the less dominant male i just hope he perks up after moving him..ill move him into a spare exoterra... thankyou very much for your help ill make all the changes youv advised and hope to see a difference.. ill try and put some pics up aswell.. thanks

 

[eirlys153]

how do i post pics i can show u then

 

[eirlys153]

here he is









monty and co hes the small lighter one.. heres onli 3 of them

 

[kinyonga]

Are his lips always separated at the end? Do you have a UVB light on them?
You said he's weak and the tongue is always stuck out slightly...could it be a calcium problem?

 

[OntarioLizardman]

hey eirlys,
im sorry but im afraid little monty doesnt look so good. thats good that your putting him in a seperate exo for now, that will help. make sure high humidity and make sure he doesnt over heat.btw what kind of UVB, if any, do you have on them?
well my friend if something happens and he doesnt make it, dont be to hard on yourself. those little guys are so delicate. also i would recommend lightly dusting his crix with vitamins, that could help boost his immune system a little bit.
best of luck brotha