What would you do, if anything at all?

[littlevillage]

Well, he's home! Now he might have a chance in life. It's going to be a long road to recovery! I'll try & post some picks of this sad little creature tomorrow. Any more suggestions on the best way to care for him?
Coolmoon, what's a " charlie plant " ? I've never heard of it before?

 

[mika]

Did you have to pay for him or they gave him up?

 

[littlevillage]

He gave him to me. He basically said it was easier for him because if he was gone he wouldn't have to worry about moving him around when they reset the store. I told him that he would never be able to sell him anyway because he's never going to look or act normal again. He told me that there was still a chance. I think there might be a chance that he'll get stong enough to climb but he's never going to look right again. His casque is totally disfigured, not to mention his legs. When it's that bad, it can't go back to normal, can it?

 

[mika]

When it's that bad, it can't go back to normal, can it?

You mean can his legs & casque look like as if he never had MBD?

Nope those are permanent.

He won't look normal but the MBD can be stopped & if it's that bad you should take him to the vet ASAP to stop more bones from breaking or damaging his organs.

There's things a vet can do that you cannot but make sure you bring him to a vet that has experience with chams.

http://www.chameleonsdish.com/health/commonproblems.htm

 

[coolmoon]

I am so glad to hear you got him. He won't be perfect but he can get stronger and more normal than he is now. The prognosis for my stupid wasn't good which is how I got him but he gets better every week. He still has to be hand feed and watered but he is much stronger and alot more chameleon in attitude lately. Here is a pic of the creeping charlie also called swedish ivy. The proper name is pilea nummulariifolia, its a common house plant and should be easy to find.

 

[wendysjungle]

Oh, I'm so glad to hear they gave him to you! And you are a good person to take him on, it's not easy emotionally or financially to adopt an ailing rescue. I really hope he does well!

 

[littlevillage]

I'm hoping to have the vet come out this week. It's great because he comes right to the house, less stress for the cham.

Coolmoon, thanks for the pic of the plant. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Have you ever heard of a fire cracker plant? I was wondering if it was safe. It's a nice vine & would like to use it if possible. Of course I won't unless I know for sure.

When I told one of the girls at work that I was taking him home, she said "Why, it's not going to live that long?". This really bothers me. Wears her heart? The way I see it...even if it doesn't live that long, at least his final days will be a hell of a lot happier than it was in before. At least I'm giving him a chance at life!

 

[coolmoon]

I can't find fire cracker plant on the lists of safe plants I found but it would be a nice one for him. I googled plants for chameleons and found some lists you may want to try it. I don't remember the name of the sites, sorry. I think there is a small list on this site too. I too do not understand people. It makes me smile when my little one hisses at me now, especially knowing no one figured he'd make it. Hang in there and take it a day at a time. Good luck and please keep me posted on how hes doing. I'll help if I can.

 

[littlevillage]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[littlevillage]

Should I put a higher uvb bulb on this guy or should I wait & see what the vet says?

 

[coolmoon]

I would wait and see what your vet says. Mine has me keeping him closer to it and if your cage is on its side that should work.

 

[littlevillage]

The vet is coming tomorrow, so we'll see what he has to say. I can't imagine what he's going to say when he finds out where I rescued this cham from. The pet store that I work for is privately owned but very well known around here.
Anyway, the newly named Rocky,( my son named him that because he's had a rocky life ) has been soaking up the sunshine this weekend. I've been putting him outside for a couple hours everyday. Thankfully it's been a nice weekend for a change. I would put him out longer but I'm afraid he'll overheat. I'm a worry wort. I was careful though to make sure he had shade & misted him frequently.

 

[coolmoon]

I love the name. Any amount of sunshine is good for him and sounds like you are doing great. I am interested to hear how things go with the vet, please let me know. Good luck today.

 

[Sassy]

Wow - I just love people with big hearts.....but it saddens me in the first place that people even let it get that bad......working in rescue I have seen alot and still see alot and it baffles me.....it's not that hard to set things up correctly.....grrrrrr. Congrats on your new addition and I have faith that with your help he will be just dandy

 

[littlevillage]

Well, the vet was here. He said that at this point he didn't feel comfortable giving him a calcium shot. He thought it would be to much for him to take. Plus the fact that he's still eating & I can give him the calcium that way. He told me to keep up the good husbandry & dust his crickets every day with calcium. He was surprised how far advanced the mbd was. He said usually when he sees them it hasn't gotten to the point of affecting their long bones like his. He checked his lungs & everything seems clear. Basically the only thing I can do at this point is keep feeding the calcium & hope that he gets stronger. I'm not so sure if I'm really happy with the vets answers just because of some of the things that I've read. They say to call a vet immediately for mbd. Why? I don't see how he helped Rocky out any. Is it really possible that there is nothing else that can be done but hope & pray? Some advice would very appreciated.

 

[mika]

I'm surprised that the Vet said he's far advanced in MBD yet will not give him calcium shots and wants you to just dust his crickets?

Geesh.. How about another vet?

The thing with chams is the moment they stop eating, then they start teethering between life & death. Some of them will eat eventhough they are very sick.

Maybe you can also give him some morning sunshine while trying to figure this all out.

Personally, if my cham was that far advanced in MBD, I would seek a second opinion if all the vet wants me to do is keep dusting the crickets.

 

[coolmoon]

Sorry he didn't give you better news. My boy is the same as yours and thats what I am doing for mine. On a up note, my little stupid is getting better slowly. I hope you will have good results too. I have read everything I could find and its been no help so if you find anything let me know.

 

[littlevillage]

Coolmoon-has yours ever gotten a calcium shot? Or have you just been doing the dusting all along? Do you do the calcium everyday? The vet said that the shot might be too much for him & might end up doing more harm than good. But, what scares me is that I read that if you start pumping the calcium to them too much too fast, you could overdose them. Is this because they're not used to having so much calcium, if any at all? Someone help!!!

 

[mika]

Hi, have you posted a pic of your cham somewhere or her enclosure?

I'm trying to look for it. Hope I didn't scare you. I didn't mean to.

Did he advise you to use liquid calcium? I don't know where you're located but you can get those a lllreptile.com, petco, petsmart, cricketfood.com (takes a while to ship at this place though).

Did he do any tests at all or did he just look at the cham and said he has MBD?

You might want to read this too:


TREATMENT AND DIAGNOSIS
Treatment for MBD in chameleons must address several issues. The first is to correct proper nutrition. A varied diet of gut-loaded insects that are dusted regularly with calcium, especially for hatchlings and juveniles, is extremely important. Avoid biasing the diet with insects with a poor Ca ratio. Additionally, add appropriate UV lighting, and correct husbandry practices.

Treatment (under a veterinarian's supervision) generally involves administering medications which may include oral or injectable calcium, injectable vitamin D3, and/or calcitonin. Symptoms and specific medical problems will need to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, and may include procedures such as tube-feeding, correction of dehydration, or fracture stabilization. Be very careful handling patients with MBD as their bones are very fragile and subject to further injury if mishandled. Radiographs (X-rays) are useful to assess bone density and confirm suspicion of MBD, and measuring blood calcium and phosphorus levels can also aid diagnosis and help guide therapy. Those chameleons that recover from MBD and regain strong solid bones will probably still retain some hint of bumps or bends in the legs, which represent healed fractures. These animals can however go on to lead good quality lives. Sometimes other skeletal abnormalities may persist including general stunting, shortening of the mandible or maxilla, and spinal deviations. In general, MBD is a treatable disease if diagnosed and treated early.

http://adcham.com/html/veterinary/mbd-fractures-kramer.html

 

[mika]

But, what scares me is that I read that if you start pumping the calcium to them too much too fast, you could overdose them. Is this because they're not used to having so much calcium, if any at all? Someone help!!!

If the vet is telling you to give him crickets dusted with calcium, then I don't think you have to worry about him overdosing on it or having it damage his organs.

I think what the Chameleon Dish article meant was not to feed the animal directly with calcium like put it in a syringe & drop that in his mouth in large amounts.