What went wrong?

[Tommy Bonnet]

So I have had hades for almost a week now. He has been really shy, to the point of not coming out unless he is completely covered. I only went into his cage for feeding, watering, spot cleaning. Today I came home for lunch and went to spray and check on him. I found him at the bottom of the cage black as night. I rushed to the vet where they said he needed to be put down.

I took my other cham in to make sure he was OK and they said he has a URI and has a slim chance of making it......

 

[jajeanpierre]

Yikes! Was that completely unexpected? I'm so sorry!

Did the vet say why he needed to be put down? What was the diagnosis? Are you treating the one that is still alive? I'm really sorry. There have been so many sudden deaths on this forum lately.

Chameleons near death, unless it is some sort of acute sudden-onset illness or injury usually give a keeper a little warning they are not feeling well.

What went wrong--and this is in no way a criticism--is that you didn't recognize it early enough. I can't stress enough that learning to recognize healthy and not healthy, normal and abnormal behavior is a skill that needs to be learned. It helps to have a group of chameleons to compare with each other. I can see how hard it would be to learn to evaluate a single pet.

Maybe this forum needs a thread on what to look for in a healthy and a not so healthy chameleon. So many keepers are not recognizing illness early enough. I know with parrots, there is a lot of information readily available written by experts to help teach people to observe and interpret a bird's body language, which gives you an insight into their health status as well as their state of mind. Maybe we need something, complete with pictures of normal/healthy to compare with pictures of animals that are not looking in the best of health.

 

[Carlton]

There are so many things that may be going on here. We need a lot more information in order to help especially as your second cham is now in trouble. Have you ever filled out the Health Clinic forum's sticky message How to Ask For Help questions? Please do and post your answers with as much specifics as you can.

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

I am very new to this so yes it is very possible I missed the warning signs. This was all very random and unexpected

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

I will post a thread in the health link once I'm off work.

Kylo is being treated for a URI with a antibiotic. The vet said Hades respiratory system was shot. Said it could have been lung worms but with out opening him up to look he could not be sure...

 

[jajeanpierre]

I will post a thread in the health link once I'm off work.

Kylo is being treated for a URI with a antibiotic. The vet said Hades respiratory system was shot. Said it could have been lung worms but with out opening him up to look he could not be sure...

Are these captive breds or wild caughts. What species again?

I lost a wild caught soon after purchase to lung worms. They completely trashed the lungs. Mine might have lived his life in the wild with them, but the stress of capture and import was too much for his immune system.

Good luck with Kylo. You will want to keep him on the warmer and more humid side of what is normal for his species.

 

[JGuinan007]

Sorry to hear that and you just named him too

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

I got Hades (veiled) from a show ( store at show was the tropical hut reptile store in portland) he was about 4 months old I assumed he was captive breed bit idk.

Kylo I got on Craigslist from a breeder

 

[jajeanpierre]

I got Hades (veiled) from a show ( store at show was the tropical hut reptile store in portland) he was about 4 months old I assumed he was captive breed bit idk.

Kylo I got on Craigslist from a breeder

I'm really sorry your introduction to chameleons has been so disappointing.

I when you buy a chameleon from anywhere other than a breeder, you are probably getting a pretty stressed animal. Not that all breeders are any good, but they should be set up to house the animals to grow and thrive. That isn't how they are kept at even the best reptile stores, where they are over crowded and stressed. A reptile show just adds a whole other layer of stress.

Did you want to fill out the "How to ask for help" questionnaire at the top of the Health section? We could double check your husbandry and help you there. I know you are a little overwhelmed right now, but it might help if you can cope with it. I suspect you need to be treated with a little TLC right now..

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon -He is a little over a year old nosey be x ambilobe panther chameleon.
Handling - when needed or if he asked to come out.
Feeding - Crickets, dubias, are staple diet gut loaded with flutes and veggies from Sandras nutrition blog and high calcium dry cricket food. I feed every other day.
Supplements - Flukers calcium with d3 and herptivite once a month, calcium without d3 every feeding.
Watering - I mist his cage 3-5 times a day by hand for 3 mins or more.I see him drink frequently.
Fecal Description - His poop looks normal, brown with white urates. Never tested.
History -Unknown breeder won't return calls.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Wood with screen custom built cage. No drainage and have been having trouble with wood soaking up water and leaking threw bottom. Cage is 5' x 3' x 2' H x W x D.
Lighting - Reptisun Uvb 5.0 24" tube light on for 12 hrs a day along with Zoo Med Repti basking spot lamp
Temperature - Basking spot of 95 with a ambient of 75. Over night temps are 70.
Humidity - Stays between 50 and 70%
Plants - Yes, Pothos, split leaf philodendron, asparagus fern.
Placement - In my bedroom. Top of cage stand 5' off ground
Location - Oregon.
Current Problem- lost my baby chameleon(veiled) to respiratory problems, and my panther has a URI and is being treated as of today by vet.

Just trying to discover what went wrong and what I should change to have a happy, healthy, long living cham....

I attached a photo of the cage. Don't mind the Temp gage that's one is broken and my digital one is on the outside I just haven't removed it because I glued it in place ( idiot I know!)

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

I posted to the health forums. Named it the same thing. If you need more info that I did not provide please ask and I'm sorry if I missed something.

 

[kinyonga]

So sorry to hear about your chameleons.
Your husbandry looks good.

What kind of wood is the cage made out of?
I'm not sure...but philodendrons may be toxic....so I'd look it up if I were you.

Was he behaving the same right up until the end?

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

So sorry to hear about your chameleons.
Your husbandry looks good.

What kind of wood is the cage made out of?
I'm not sure...but philodendrons may be toxic....so I'd look it up if I were you.

Was he behaving the same right up until the end?

I got the plant list from flchams before it was removed or something and it was on that list. I will look it up tho because I saw hades munching on it today. The wood is ply wood except the floor that was partical board (poor decision) and I will be changing that soon and putting in a drainage system.
Everything seemed fine until the end this was so unexpected.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

Even ply wood isn't a good source for walls or floors. It holds water and can mold easily. That's why when building a home it gets covered up by vinyl or treated/painted siding. It will also expand over with getting wet and heat added to it. I recommend just buying a screen enclosure to ensure the better health and being of your chameleon. It's a hassle and time consuming to build one. By the time you do, you would have been better off just paying for one! Lol Best of luck!

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

Even ply wood isn't a good source for walls or floors. It holds water and can mold easily. That's why when building a home it gets covered up by vinyl or treated/painted siding. It will also expand over with getting wet and heat added to it. I recommend just buying a screen enclosure to ensure the better health and being of your chameleon. It's a hassle and time consuming to build one. By the time you do, you would have been better off just paying for one! Lol Best of luck!

Thank you.

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

Tyveck which is what we use as a vapor barrier on homes today is plastic..... I actually know a lot about construction and home repair. or we use tar paper but yes plywood is not good for water. I am going to be doing some extensive water proofing..... The Cham was only in the cage for a week so I don't think it was really the problem. Over time I see it being a issue tho so I I'm taking your advice and will only get the screen cages made for these guys. Easier in the end like you said

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

Tyveck which is what we use as a vapor barrier on homes today is plastic..... I actually know a lot about construction and home repair.

Yes tyveck is placed over the sheeting. Pain in the butt to hang on a windy day lol

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

I was cleaning my room and pulled out.the end table that is between my bed and the wall.and found black mold. After tearing my room apart.i found black mold on the walls knee hight and below. It is behind both my cham cages on the end tables. I have seen it in the windows but clean it regularly. I keep a very clean home and was shocked to.find this. It is growing behind everything on the outside walls in my room. Could this be the problem?

 

[Tommy Bonnet]

I was cleaning my room and pulled out.the end table that is between my bed and the wall.and found black mold. After tearing my room apart.i found black mold on the walls knee hight and below. It is behind both my cham cages on the end tables. I have seen it in the windows but clean it regularly. I keep a very clean home and was shocked to.find this. It is growing behind everything on the outside walls in my room. Could this be the problem?

 

[JaxyGirl]

Sorry to hear about your Cham. Sometimes it's hard to figure out exactly what is wrong especially when it happened so quickly. It's awesome that you're taking him to the vet on Monday. All I can advises is just to make him comfortable and keep him hydrated until Monday and it might be a good idea to move his cage because Black mold is very toxic and is known to cause all types of respiratory problems in humans. Who knows what the effects would be on animals?
Here is a good link to check out Symptoms of Black mold.
http://blackmold.awardspace.com/black-mold-toxic-stachybotrys-mycotoxins.html
Best of luck with your guy. He looks very sweet. Keep us posted about his vet visit.