what is the best incubator

[fluxlizard]

dunno- I've never checked it.

I would guess it is near 100% because hazy condensation appears on the sides of the containers...

Maybe someone else who has checked better answer this one for you. My method works perfectly for me hundreds and hundreds of times, so I never worried about exact humidity levels...

 

[reptyslick123]

thank you so much i real an very greatfull for all of your knowledg and understanding.
thank you alex

 

[iTsJusTMe]

Just wanna say that was a very helpful conversation good questions and answers thanks guys.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

For panther chameleons, here is my best fancy incubator:

Seriously this is it. For panther chameleons if you can find a dark cabinet in your home that stays about 70-80 degrees, it is all you need and better than a constant temp incubator. This incubator is the cabinet under a sink in a bathroom. Those are veiled chameleon eggs in there at the moment. Humidity is regulated by using properly moistened substrate and keeping the lids sealed other than a very occasional egg check. I do mean very occasional too- some containers will not be opened at all for the duration if there are no obvious problems with the eggs inside. Perfect every time for me and perfect throughout incubation.

I also have some havobators and a variety of home-made forced air incubators for other lizards. My best is huge 5 day cooler that I modified with a heating element ripped out of a havobator, a computer case fan and a herpstat pro incubator thermostat controller (made by spyder robotics- I highly recommend). It keeps the entire incubator a nice constant temperature- no where in the incubator is the temperature more than 1/10 of a degree higher or 1/10 of a degree lower than the target temperature even when fully loaded, and there is room for about 50 sandwich containers of eggs. I can hook it up to a server I made from computer parts I pulled out of the local computer shop's trash (with their permission they have a junk pile of free stuff that consists of good but very dated parts, but year 2000 era parts on my server so slow to boot but works great for this simple purpose)and check my temperatures on the internet any time, and if temps malfunction the herpstat pro has an audible alarm and can call me on the phone and tell me something is wrong. It is overkill for panther chameleons which do best at room temperature incubation anyway.

In looking around for proper incubation temps techniques etc, this caught my eye.
I noticed Flux DOES NOT put air holes in the containers.
Makes sense to me.
I now have 20 precious ambilobe eggs in my care. So I want to do this right.
Can experienced members throw their 2 cents into this so I know if vent holes or not is the way to go.

Thanks

 

[fluxlizard]

I'm the same guy posting again, but for what it is worth- I've got some panthers hatching now. 11 months on this batch. no ventilation throughout. Hatchlings doing great. Hatched thousands of lizards over many years this way. It's not a lucky fluke success. Not trying to discourage more participants answering your query- just sharing a little more info from my perspective.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

I'm the same guy posting again, but for what it is worth- I've got some panthers hatching now. 11 months on this batch. no ventilation throughout. Hatchlings doing great. Hatched thousands of lizards over many years this way. It's not a lucky fluke success. Not trying to discourage more participants answering your query- just sharing a little more info from my perspective.

Hi Flux,

Thanks for getting back into your thread.
I am the proud owner of 20 panther eggs as of yesterday.
If nothing else I strive to do things right the first time.
You seem to have had success ( plural) in not adding air holes to the containers. Makes sense since a buried clutch in nature certainly would not have air except what little came down through the inches of soil.
What temps are you incubating your panthers at? Also are you including diapause in the gestation period? If so when what temp and how long

Thanks !!! Much in advance
Lisa

 

[fluxlizard]

I've done eggs at lots of different temps. There really is no "wrong" way that will completely mess up the eggs, except heat above 82 for extended periods.
The cabinet under the sink in that photo varies from mid-upper 60s to upper 70s depending on time of year. Incubation duration in this situation varies wildly depending on what time of year the eggs are laid. Anywhere from 7-13 months.

I used to incubate at 80-82 day/68-72 nights. Just put my incubator on a timer so it would cut off at night and go down to room temp. Incubation was generally around 6 months.

This batch hatching now was incubated constantly about 78 degrees and that results in a longer incubation time. This wasn't really planned- I was just overwhelmed this past year from cleaning up and rebuilding after a fire and neglected to worry about the eggs. I started them at 78 in an incubator and intended to cool them after a couple of weeks and never got around to it! This constant warmer incubation generally results in longer incubations, hence the 11 months.

My favorite method I've only done once so far. I kept at 78 for 2 weeks, dropped the temp to mid-upper 60s for a couple of months, and then had a day night temp fluctuation of 78 day/68 nights for the remainder. Took 5 1/2 months (or 5- or something- my mind is a little foggy on the exact details but I did post them on the forums at some point in the past- I kind of think it was less than 5 and a half now come to think of it- if you want- search my past posts to find exactly what I did- I know I will be doing so next time I get eggs LOL).

Generally I have felt like longer incubation times = smaller hatchlings, shorter times= larger hatchlings that have a bit more spunk to them. But I have heard from others here on the forums that they have felt the opposite. I think they see it as kind of "premature" or something. Whereas I see it more as diapause ending sooner. I feel like development kicks in from environmental stimulus rather longer incubation times possibly having diapause ending from a last ditch effort for the egg to survive and develop because the clock has run down on it.

But that could all be incorrect speculation- certainly the group hatching now at 11 months looks great to me at this point and appears to be very healthy and thriving. I have never taken actual measurements or weights for comparison.

I feel like a vigorous hatchling that has eyes open and is active and hatches out without goop hanging off the umbilical, a hatchling that feeds well and groups with hardly any mortality is the measure for success, and I have achieved that at all incubation durations/temperature methods.

So, my advice- just keep the eggs in the 70s and allow them to fluctuate a bit rather than keeping them at a constant temp in an incubator. If you want to try breaking diapause by giving them a cooling period- mid to upper 60s for 2 months, then a return to the 70s for the duration.

Edit- went back looking through my posts and can't find the info. Maybe I've got it around here somewhere- I hope so!

 

[fleetwoodchams]

I've done eggs at lots of different temps. There really is no "wrong" way that will completely mess up the eggs, except heat above 82 for extended periods.
The cabinet under the sink in that photo varies from mid-upper 60s to upper 70s depending on time of year. Incubation duration in this situation varies wildly depending on what time of year the eggs are laid. Anywhere from 7-13 months.

I used to incubate at 80-82 day/68-72 nights. Just put my incubator on a timer so it would cut off at night and go down to room temp. Incubation was generally around 6 months.

This batch hatching now was incubated constantly about 78 degrees and that results in a longer incubation time. This wasn't really planned- I was just overwhelmed this past year from cleaning up and rebuilding after a fire and neglected to worry about the eggs. I started them at 78 in an incubator and intended to cool them after a couple of weeks and never got around to it! This constant warmer incubation generally results in longer incubations, hence the 11 months.

My favorite method I've only done once so far. I kept at 78 for 2 weeks, dropped the temp to mid-upper 60s for a couple of months, and then had a day night temp fluctuation of 78 day/68 nights for the remainder. Took 5 1/2 months (or 5- or something- my mind is a little foggy on the exact details but I did post them on the forums at some point in the past- I kind of think it was less than 5 and a half now come to think of it- if you want- search my past posts to find exactly what I did- I know I will be doing so next time I get eggs LOL).

Generally I have felt like longer incubation times = smaller hatchlings, shorter times= larger hatchlings that have a bit more spunk to them. But I have heard from others here on the forums that they have felt the opposite. I think they see it as kind of "premature" or something. Whereas I see it more as diapause ending sooner. I feel like development kicks in from environmental stimulus rather longer incubation times possibly having diapause ending from a last ditch effort for the egg to survive and develop because the clock has run down on it.

But that could all be incorrect speculation- certainly the group hatching now at 11 months looks great to me at this point and appears to be very healthy and thriving. I have never taken actual measurements or weights for comparison.

I feel like a vigorous hatchling that has eyes open and is active and hatches out without goop hanging off the umbilical, a hatchling that feeds well and groups with hardly any mortality is the measure for success, and I have achieved that at all incubation durations/temperature methods.

So, my advice- just keep the eggs in the 70s and allow them to fluctuate a bit rather than keeping them at a constant temp in an incubator. If you want to try breaking diapause by giving them a cooling period- mid to upper 60s for 2 months, then a return to the 70s for the duration.

Edit- went back looking through my posts and can't find the info. Maybe I've got it around here somewhere- I hope so!

Oh Flux,

What a wealth of knowledge you are. thanks so much.
You certainly have been doing this for a lot longer than some on this forum, back when keeping chameleons was new.
I have spent most of tonight trying to find others research on this temp questions. Most have just said this is undetermined or too risky to undertake. Well it sure looks like you have taken the first step to make it a system based on experience.
A local friend of mine has also said he is experimenting with a home-made incubator that will take into count the cycle of chameleon diapause. More data is required but if everyone is afraid to try then we will never know.
Laud to you for all that you have discovered so far.
So sorry to hear about a fire. Hope you are getting things back to normal
Please accept my thanks for your help.
I am going to set up my eggs tomorrow in the fashion you suggested.
I'll keep everyone posted.

Lisa

 

[Bonginator]

Quick question on the Vermiculite. Do you need to buy organic or can it be the regular planting type? Also - it seems to come in different sizes. Any particular size used?

Thx!

 

[cindyloo]

closet...

I have three clutches of panther cham eggs in small square Rubbermaid storage containers with hatch-rite as the substrate on a shelf in my closet... they are 2 months apart they will be my first ones.. the first clutch my girl layed is going on 6 months and boy have they grown, she just layed tonight and reminded me how small the first clutch used to be......

 

[ZenChameleons]

Mine is now a reptipro....I got it on ebay but LLLreptile has the same type...Its sold under many different brand names but made by the same company! The only problem with it is the digital readout for the temp. is not that accurate...I just added a Springfield therometer with hygrometer( model# 91551 ) that sits on the inside. With that incubator my last clutch of Oustalets #42 of #45 hatched...Not too bad!!!

Reptipro has some pretty bad reviews on amazon, more people give it a 1 star than a 5.