What happened too him?

[XxSepiorxX]

These are some things that may have happened during my Chameleon's life adding up to his death and other factors. Pre-buying;MBD at the pet mill, injury at the pet mill, Deformites, fight at the pet mill. Present; MBD when bought, not enough calcium (MBD becasue of not enough calcium), Prolaspe (this happened when I took out his water bowl). Other;cold, Unknown cause of death. (Parasites? Infection?)

 

[Angelwolf]

Ok. That's random.

 

[JacksJill]

Starting with a chameleon that has had poor care at the pet store or reptile mill will lead to a set of problems that they may never be able to recover from.
I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[Crashbandit05]

No one should have to deal with that. If you choose to get another one I'd look into a reputable breeder. You mentioned a water bowl, I'd suggest reading more about husbandry too so you are better prepared. There's a wealth of information here, you just have to sort through it.

 

[XxSepiorxX]

I am still very confused about why when I took out his water bowl, he got a prolaspe. I think it was because he always pooped in there. He only would drink out of his water bowl. Never from mist. He only got to drink out of a water bowl when I bought him at Petco back in 2015.

 

[JacksJill]

I would think it was just a coincidence. Prolapse is usually related to some kind of intestinal or vent irritation like parasites or infection.

 

[XxSepiorxX]

Just note that this chameleon died back in December 2016.

 

[carol5208]

Just note that this chameleon died back in December 2016.

Why are you bringing it up now then? Also, I agree that taking out a water bowl would not cause a prolapse. That is highly unlikely. If that was the only way your chameleon would drink, then I would not have removed it.

 

[Remkon]

Improper husbandry during the majority of his life caused him to die.
Whatever illness(es) eventually killed him doesn't matter, all that matters is that his long time suffering ended with his final breath.

 

[jamest0o0]

Look up the OPs past posts, all I'll say

 

[Decadancin]

You have had many responses to your inquiries in past threads, and I don't think you want to hear the advice given. I don't want to sound mean, but it sounds a lot like you want to blame everyone but you. You may or may not be totally to blame, but you need to own this because you decided to take on the responsibility of caring for an animal. I am not sure why you are still asking these questions. We can only speculate and that will not help bring any closure to you. Even an animal from a pet store can have a decent life if the proper husbandry is followed. It is often much easier to blame Petco for an animal's health issues rather than search for the problems and shortfalls in husbandry and care that can lead to problems. Many animals can and do live with a good quality of life even after being diagnosed with MBD if the right steps are taken to prevent or slow further damage. I have never seen any case of prolapse related to a water bowl. Many chameleons will not drink from the misting, but only from the droplets on the leaves in the enclosures, and many are rarely if ever seen drinking. Without a necropsey it would not be fair for us to say what happened.

 

[Shawnschamelion]

Wow!!!! Well said!!

 

[XxSepiorxX]

Look up the OPs past posts, all I'll say

You have had many responses to your inquiries in past threads, and I don't think you want to hear the advice given. I don't want to sound mean, but it sounds a lot like you want to blame everyone but you. You may or may not be totally to blame, but you need to own this because you decided to take on the responsibility of caring for an animal. I am not sure why you are still asking these questions. We can only speculate and that will not help bring any closure to you. Even an animal from a pet store can have a decent life if the proper husbandry is followed. It is often much easier to blame Petco for an animal's health issues rather than search for the problems and shortfalls in husbandry and care that can lead to problems. Many animals can and do live with a good quality of life even after being diagnosed with MBD if the right steps are taken to prevent or slow further damage. I have never seen any case of prolapse related to a water bowl. Many chameleons will not drink from the misting, but only from the droplets on the leaves in the enclosures, and many are rarely if ever seen drinking. Without a necropsey it would not be fair for us to say what happened.

Improper husbandry during the majority of his life caused him to die.
Whatever illness(es) eventually killed him doesn't matter, all that matters is that his long time suffering ended with his final breath.

Look up the OPs past posts, all I'll say

-sigh- All of these threads back when I was a new member were all screw ups when one reply was a rude one. In a simple way we were all Hiroshima then one reply was the Enola Gay, who let the Little rude boy into the air and sent the thread into madness and chaos. I just really have time for no chaos this time so sorry! I'm still confused on how I didn't get a infraction too. Have a nice day!

 

[Decadancin]

All of these threads back when I was a new member were all screw ups when one reply was a rude one.

You asked questions, many answered. All can go and look if they choose to. This reply does not make any sense.

"Ok, so here's the deal. I think it's awesome that you are getting into reptiles at such a young age, good for you! But you need to do what needs to be done for him too. First things first.....He needs to see a vet, now. You have had this guy for almost a year. MBD does not happen over night and having him as long as you have means it was most likely not the pet store and has something to do with your care....supplements and lighting. You need to fill out the how to ask for help form that others have asked you to fill out and let us help you get things right so the he has the best chance and getting through this. "

I work with youth, being young means nothing if you're responsible, you just need to do what needs to be done and let us guide you.
"His leg was messed up but it went back to normal after it healed. He had MBD in the past because before I bought him, because his leg was messed up when I saw him. Pet store didn't notice. May have been something else.
But I do have a reputation because of that."
"A piece of advice may have been my cham's death sentence."
"Roses are red, violets are blue, this site is pointless and so are the members."

"We went to the vet... He has no MBD!!!! Just need to fix heat and feeding!!!! "
"Did you go to Dr. Brad Wilson?"
"No, Marrieta is too far (1 Hour)."
"Ok, here is the extra detail; 1. He said he does not have MBD, it's just a slightly broken leg; 2. The vet said he is underweight, I will feed him more. 3. More heat: this is why he is skinny.
Signs of no MBD: Good grip, Active, Able to move regularly, more than green colors."
"We don't have a lot time to drive a hour."
"Did the vet do an x-ray?"
"What caused the broken leg? What is his weight?"
"Well, I was on a trip."
"No X-Ray was needed."
"When I go back, he will check the weight and maybe a x-ray."
"When are you going back?"
"A month from now."
"He doesn't eat a lot because it is cold in his cage."
"Well, the back leg is just broken from the trip, I will get a picture if I can of is broken leg"
"One thing we need to remember when giving advise here is that the OP is 9 years old. I am proud that he took the initiative to ask his parents to take his cham to the vet. I don't think being 9 will prevent him from doing his very best to do what he needs to do. I do think knowing his age is important to how we respond.
@XxSepiorxX, good job getting him to the vet! I would like to suggest that you see if your parents would be willing to also get on here and learn as well. It would really help you because then your parents would also understand the care involved. It's easier to convince someone who is paying for what is needed if they know why its needed."

"He doesn't have MBD, he like to climb and sit in crazy ways."
"Look, I know it LOOKS like it, but he has no MBD. True"
"Your Veiled is doomed, you won't listen to the people because your vet likely doesn't deal with reptiles. Look at its spine, even I can see the kinks, the casque is bent, the jaw in one pic is beginning to draw back causing the front of his mouth to stay slightly open. All the signs are there and I'm sorry you don't realize the problem!"
"@XxSepiorxX , I didn't want to respond here because I don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you, but I keep coming back to the tread to read what others are saying and I agree with their overall thoughts. you can understand our view. I would not wait a month if at all possible and see if you can get to a vet with more experience with these animals. You could call and ask a few questions first before making an appointment just to see if they have experience with MBD and chameleons. That way you will know the visit will be a productive one.
I truly hope your chameleon gets the help he needs and can have a great quality of life in your care! There have been many success stories of people of all ages dealing with MBD and I'd love to see you on that list!
A vet can't fully understand what is going on internally without a full workup and most importantly some x-rays. We are just going from the visible signs and after seeing the evidence that you have also pointed out..."
"You guys are not ganging up on me, he is kinda small for his age, but I am glad he doesn't have MBD. "
"I will make this very clear, so listen up: This is just what he looks like right now. The vet has dealt with chameleons before. Please believe this now."
"I know you want your cham to be healthy but even experts make wrong calls...
The life of your cham is your responsibility so in the end it will be your call to go for a 2nd opinion or to gamble on the cham's health against the advise of experienced keepers and keep him home.
I'm no expert and it can just be bad pictures but when I see your cham I get a feel he's not a healthy fella."
"I'm sorry you refuse to listen, you're are 9 and can't understand what people are trying to point out...Google MBD, look at the pics for yourself. When it dies, please don't make another post trying to make people feel sorry for you. We all tried to warn you. Some people may think I'm being harsh but you're seeing rainbows after your vet told you he's ok and you continue not to listen to others...I'm sorry for your Veiled."

and from a vet with experience with chameleons supporting what has been advised...

"...but here is my professional opinion on the chameleon as a veterinarian.

I've looked at the pictures posted in this thread and the other. The casque is crooked, the mouth is slightly malaligned, and the right elbow looks abnormal in that it has a curved shape. All of these and especially the curved shape of the elbow are indicative of MBD, however it could be old and in the recovery stage. But in most cases bending indicates currently weakened bone and a pathological fracture. The single most common reason by nearly 100% in reptiles is metabolic bone disease (nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism) with bending like that. If supplementation and UVB exposure is adequate then it could be healing but you don't know without doing diagnostic testing like X-rays to look at bone density or bloodwork to examine the calcium to phosphorus ratio.

I applaud you for taking him to the vet. Unfortunately many vets have very limited training or experience with reptiles, and even those that do see them still may not necessarily know what to look for in more subtle situations. I have met many vets in this category. It is not for lack of caring, simply lack of adequate experience with animals that differ so much from cats and dogs. Even though you rely on medical professionals to be experts it is not always so easy. The fact that the vet said it was "slightly fractured" is concerning. Either it is fractured or it is not. And if it is fractured at all then that is problematic and needs to be investigated. If it is fractured due to trauma then it needs to be splinted. But if not then it's because metabolic bone disease is present in which case no splint is used. Since no diagnostics were done then MBD cannot be ruled out. And there are physical findings enough to support the diagnosis. So it is faulty to simply say that it's not present if nothing was done to disprove the evidence that it is. Your chameleon has several areas with evidence of MBD unfortunately. Until diagnostics are done it is foolish to think otherwise and will delay treatment and allow the disease to progress.

Even if he doesn't have MBD the extra calcium is not harmful. Please treat him with additional calcium and use a fresh UVB bulb or natural sunlight regardless. It won't hurt, and it will probably help. Please see the resource on MBD for more information."

And your response...

"He broke is leg on a trip, in his travel cage. He fell and bumped around. I couldn't see what happened because it was dark. I only heard some weird sounds."

"Healthy chameleons in the wild, particularly small individuals like this, regularly jump or fall from trees many meters above the ground to escape predators without breaking bones. If your chameleon fractured its limb in its travel cage and you didn't punt kick the cage to cause it, it almost assuredly has low bone calcium issues. This is supported by the visibly deformed spine, limbs, casque, jaw, etc., that are evident in the photos you have posted. As @ferretinmyshoes, who is a highly qualified reptile vet, said in her post above, unless your vet performed X-rays and blood tests to diagnostically rule MBD out, they did not perform the necessary tests that would be required to be able to say that this animal does not have it given the extensive external symptoms shown. "

"Ok, this is it;

THE CHAMELEON DOES NOT HAVE MBD. Got it. Make sure you do. I don't have time for going back and forth with you guys."

"Yeah, so which vet should I listen to; The vet on here, or the vet I went to."
"Look, read what @Remkon said. I found the answer I need. The question was if my Cham has MBD. He doesn't have it. The x-ray and other stuff will be next time I go. He is great with ALL reptiles. He told me everything I should know."

I did not want to re-live this, but you can't ignore the situation. There were some rude comments eventually, but the original advice was meant to help save your chameleon. Who knows, it may have helped if you had listened, but that is irrelevant now. Please do not pretend that you do not know what caused your chameleon's demise and try to start new discussions about this situation. Too many of us remember the frustration of having our opinions and experience ignored and discredited by one who asked for help.