What chameleon is this?
- Thread starter tryme
- Start date
merumontanus
Avid Member
Steven,
Since we're on the topic-- I'd like your opinion on the following. During a shipment a couple of years back, I unpacked what was labeled as Chamaeleo dilepis, only to be surprised by several of these:
The red eyes and strikingly distinct cranial morphology was a clear indication that these were not like all the "usual" dilepis I had seen-- they had a much more slender body, closer to a senegalensis, red irises, but could not be that as they also had occipital lobes and a slightly more heterogeneous scalation compared to the Senegal chameleon-- at least it appeared so. I went back and forth between a subspecies of dilepis (perhaps isabellinus) and quilensis, and eventually settled on quilensis after hearing from a few others who also shared that opinion.
I'm not very familiar with the more obscure members of the Chamaeleo, so I'd love to hear from you and others who have worked with this incredible taxon.
Cheers,
Fabián
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Fabian,
That animal has a lot in common with Ch. gracilis.
Chris
That animal has a lot in common with Ch. gracilis.
Chris
merumontanus
Avid Member
Interesting. Can you elaborate? As you can see, they are much smaller than gracilis as adults-- could they be an isolated population? Obviously it's imposible to know given the lack of locality information.
Thanks,
Fabián
P.S. tryme, I hope this conversation doesn't conflict with the original intention of your post.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Fabian,
Did the male have tarsal spurs?
Chris
Did the male have tarsal spurs?
Chris
merumontanus
Avid Member
Hm, I don't remember seeing any of them with spurs, but I'll have to go back and look through the rest of my photos at home to see if any of the others had them. It's been so long.
Fabián
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Fabian,
It would make sense to me if they did not have spurs. There is a species, Chamaeleo etiennei which is basically a minute Chamaeleo gracilis (in fact, it used to be a subspecies) which lacks tarsal spurs. Your chameleon reminds me of Ch. gracilis because of how flat the casque is but suddenly elevates at the posterior and the shape of the conical scales of the dorsal crest. It does not look like a Ch. dilepis or Ch. quilensis to me. My guess would be Chamaeleo etiennei based on the photos and the assumption it does not have a tarsal spur. I don't suppose you knew where the animals came in from?
Chris
luevelvet
Avid Member
Steven,
You and I have more to discuss. I just picked up a female Senegalensis to compliment the male I've had for a while. I'm super excited to get this Senegalensis breeding project going. A very fun and charming species for sure.
Luis
merumontanus
Avid Member
Chris,
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I have no information regarding their origin, and I also did not keep any of the animals-- although I sent a few to a member of the forum back then, so hopefully she'll see this and comment with any updates on the animals.
Cheers,
Fabián
Niels Pedersen
Established Member
chamaeleo
I would be cool to find out if this is really ch. etiennei
I would be cool to find out if this is really ch. etiennei
eisentrauti
Avid Member
If this chameleon is from South Africa it couldn't be a quilensis.
Last edited:
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Benny,
Ch. quilensis are found in South Africa. In actuality, while the identity of the South African Flap-necked chameleons is debated in South Africa by some scientists, the consensus is that they are either Ch. dilepis (no subspecies typically specified) or Ch. quilensis. Since Ch. d. dilepis is the only Ch. dilepis subspecies to live in South Africa, I believe the South African Flap-necked Chameleons are Ch. quilensis since, to be honest, the occipital lobes are clearly not Ch. d. dilepis.
Chris
eisentrauti
Avid Member
Oh ok, thanks. Based the book "Chameleons of Southern Africa" I thought that dilepis are the only ones from the complex living there.
Beside this fact, I not really an expert on the genus Chamaeleo
Beside this fact, I not really an expert on the genus Chamaeleo
Joery
New Member
Regarding the chameleon from the documentary, we should also consider that it is also possible that it isn't filmed in South Africa but a neighbouring country (film makers tend to use material shot in different areas to create their docu and even for very experienced chameleon specialists it is even hard to discriminate between several members of the dilepis complex). My first idea looking at the photo would be ch. dilepis roperi (smaller flaps then d. dilepis, but larger then quilensis...) Though, I'm no expert regarding the dilepis complex!
Maybe some feedback from casper petersen would be good also, since he's keeping and breeding these animals.
regards
Maybe some feedback from casper petersen would be good also, since he's keeping and breeding these animals.
regards
Damaranum
Established Member
First to the animal from the movie. As said before and also said by Chris I'm 98% sure it's quilensis I've seen those animals in South Africa and breeded the nothern form and I really believe the animals are the same. Also looking at the body it looks more like quilensis as roperi has a slimmer body.
Youri you're right it might be an other country but here I'm 99% sure this is southern africa.
Then the animal from Fabian I agree with Chris it looks like a small gracilis. Which indeed might be etienni but there I don't have enough knowledge from and the picture doesn't make ik clear. Looking at the flaps they are to small to be from a dilepis subspecies. And senegalensis as said doesn't have any occibital lobes.
Í can't find my old pictures yet Fabian then I'll post some pictures of the gracilis I've had same quilensis and senegalensis (and the promissed tempeli).
I would be nice if you could track some of those animals to see more pictures.
Youri you're right it might be an other country but here I'm 99% sure this is southern africa.
Then the animal from Fabian I agree with Chris it looks like a small gracilis. Which indeed might be etienni but there I don't have enough knowledge from and the picture doesn't make ik clear. Looking at the flaps they are to small to be from a dilepis subspecies. And senegalensis as said doesn't have any occibital lobes.
Í can't find my old pictures yet Fabian then I'll post some pictures of the gracilis I've had same quilensis and senegalensis (and the promissed tempeli).
I would be nice if you could track some of those animals to see more pictures.
