What are you paying for gas where you are???

Won't be drilling....

Not trying to spur a political debate here but House Democrats blocked a bill yesterday to drill oil 50-miles from our shores. Heck the Chinese and others are drilling already and planning more off our coasts. This is fact! I work in this industry. So Dem or Rep you should be calling your representatives and complaining.

Oh, and Obama said basically that we should be paying for our oil consumption as everyone else in the world are already. Whatever!!! We pay enough already. DRILL DRILL DRILL and build nuclear.
 
spearsre said:
Not trying to spur a political debate here but House Democrats blocked a bill yesterday to drill oil 50-miles from our shores. Heck the Chinese and others are drilling already and planning more off our coasts. This is fact! I work in this industry. So Dem or Rep you should be calling your representatives and complaining.

Oh, and Obama said basically that we should be paying for our oil consumption as everyone else in the world are already. Whatever!!! We pay enough already. DRILL DRILL DRILL and build nuclear.
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I'd really hate for a fish or two to get sprayed in the face with hot oil... At least right now, the fish off Florida can get mad at the Chinese and not at us... Even though environmentalists are mad at us and not the Chinese.

I agree completely with the Spearsre on the nuclear thing. This country is already low on electricity. Solar (and wind) will eventually help more and more, but would be nothing like nuclear plants.

I won't start going into presidential candidates, but "one" of them is wanting to cut back our military, cut back our nuclear arsenal (no way in hell that Russia or China will also), and put an end to our missle defense system. The only way Russia or China would ever be able to seriously attack the US is by lobbing a bunch of nukes over here. But let's scrap our whole defense system and hope that everyone will just hug and have lunch together.
 
I think a few points might have been over looked in the conversation. First, the reason why we aren't pumping out of our own reserves that are still in ground is because the Government and big Oil are looking to use up everyone else's reserves before ours. It hurts in the wallet for sure but when we have oil and nobody else does, then decision will seem wise. Also realize a significant part of the high price is the lack of Oil Refineries. Second, just since electric hybrids were introduced the technology has gone a looong way. They were slightly better than 4 wheeled bikes when first introduced, now they're making SUV hybrids that actually have a little get up. This is less than 10 years and fighting against low gas prices... give it a little time and the technology will be there to rip tree stumps out of the ground with your F-450h, beer in hand. Lastly, if you think gas prices are bad now you have no idea how bad it can be. I spent a few months in England and they were charging 5-6 pounds per LITER. The British Pound is stronger than the Euro to give you an idea how much that would cost in USD. Try dealing with that if you've made a career out of minimum wage!

What does it matter if we have 300 nukes or 100? Or if we have 100 and the other guys have 300? We're all dead for the most part anyways if it gets that far. The missle defense shield is the stupidest idea and is just setting up an unnecessary showdown with our Russian friends. If you think that silly shield is going to help, I've got a used but structurly sound bridge for sale connecting Manhatten to the NY. Low price and I can guarantee partial financing with 20% down. If the $hit flies that thing "might" be able to take a few missles out but realize that they won't be sending 5 or 6 over to us, they'll be sending everything they've got. It's just a big Bush pissing contest that provacating the Russians and giving them an excuse to drag their feet and give us hell on issues that are import to us like Iran. Nobody is going to invade us and we aren't going to invade them. Settle down with the waving of torches and pitchforks.
 
Matt,
Are you still mad that she went home with me? I told you I'd give you her number...
 
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Firstly,
The United States should have extended it's territorial waters from only 2 miles
to 200 miles matching those of mexico and other nations.
Those are going to become very important in the future.

Secondly,
The change has to be made sooner or later to get off of oil.
Either we consume all the 3rd world petrol supplies before everyone else
and deal with the resulting global effects.
We'll have to reserve the domestic fields to power our war machine
that we'll use to secure the land spared from the rising waters
to house and feed our (rich & air conditioned) citizens against the angry and starved
great unwashed masses that will populate the planet.

OR

We make the change now while we're not under severe pressure for survival.
leave the toxic sludge in the ground and leap frog ahead of the rest of the world
by reconfiguring our economy and society to use clean energy.

yes, the tech isn't up there with gas power ..
Oh wait... I wuz wronged aren't there electric drag racers nowdays?
Generally, the internal combustion engine, light bulb, tv set, radio, DVD/CD players and computers
wasn't high performance out of the gate either or cheap.
it took people committing to it, in order for development investment.
Prices are steep at first... but with production commitments they'll get much lower... quickly.

It's not a sad joke that our nation has invested more money
into making people feel good about buying their new cars
vs developing the next generation replacement energy source.
That's to say nothing about developing replacement auto's.

Re: this nations SDI shield thing
it isn't intended to actually work... that was a ronald reagan's alzheimer's pipedream
nowdays it's really it's intended to send money back into the weapons industry to reward those
"supporters who donated to election funds".
 
Jeweledchameleons said:
The change has to be made sooner or later to get off of oil.
Either we consume all the 3rd world petrol supplies before everyone else
and deal with the resulting global effects.
We'll have to reserve the domestic fields to power our war machine
that we'll use to secure the land spared from the rising waters
to house and feed our (rich & air conditioned) citizens against the angry and starved great unwashed masses that will populate the planet.
[/url]
Click to expand...

I understand the need to eventually move off oil. I get it. I don't argue that. What I argue is that we kill our economy in the meantime while nobody spends any money because gas prices are so high. You're basically arguing that the United States alone should put a choke hold on ourselves while no other country does, so a handful of science students can kill the next decade trying to figure out how to make a battery better. Are we guilty of something? Do you really think that the earth's oil is going to just dry up one afternoon and suddenly the world will depend on us? There's thousands of oil fields out there all over the world (big and small) that haven't been touched. If the big reserves currently being used are ever used up, they'll just start drilling those. I predict that the economy will eventually become bad enough because of high gas prices that we will be drilling our oil within the next few years. Tree huggers and liberals holding us back are the same ones that try to organize these "gas strikes" on MySpace; "let's all not buy gas on March 23rd... We'll really stick it to the oil companies!!" Dumbest thing I ever heard. They'll be overrun by themselves and give up the fight when they move out of their parent's house and start paying their own gasoline bill.

On a second note, am I supposed to feel guilty that I as an American have air conditioning and am relatively "rich" in comparison to the world? Is that not the best thing about America? We are the most powerful country in the world, the country that anyone else wants to come to, and you want to set us back to 1700's lifestyle because some guy in Africa doesn't have A/C? Tell you what... The day you move out of your A/C into a cardboard box because you think you're going to save the planet, I'll move into the box next door....

About the missle defense; when WW3 starts (and it will sooner than later); do you not want to live in the only country capable of shooting down another country's military satellites? Kinda hard for them to target their missles without GPS or satellites. But maybe we shouldn't do that, just so it's a fair fight.
 
Rich, comfortable Americans...

We are rich becuase we work and we have had the guts to stop a tyrannical government. We also have the luxary of owning chameleons as pets instead of believing that if we harm one we will become one.

Self loathing for our luxuries in life does nothing but fuel the loss of our liberties. Yes I have compassion for the poor. I give an exceptional amount of money to the needy every year in two ways....I pay approx. $38K in federal and state taxes each year and then I donate to worthy causes. Actually my next economic assistance will be to put some money in the hands of a breeder who has the chameleon I am looking to buy. Maybe he can use that and buy a tank of gas or support a candidate who will bring America back to being great and not try to mimic Europe.

Cheers....
and I still respect your right to your opinion.
 
I just think its funny how all these people talk bad about the U.S. while exercising there freedom of speech on their new Apple or Dell Computer.

The U.S. is one of the few places in the world that offers the standard of living that we get. Also, we got this way for a reason. Sometimes you have to invade a country, I dont like it either, but if the ends justify the means and it those ends result in a greater good for the masses... well then....

As for the gas, we will be on gas for much longer, we live in a free market economy, (world at that) and until a company is willing to invest the money to compete against these Exxon's and Tesoro's, we will be stuck consuming their products.

Also, how many of you out there are willing to trade your gas auto for a new underdeveloped technology like hybrid. I kno I still I drive a Toyota and I think my next care might be too.
 
I'm going to try to keep this short
I understand the need to eventually move off oil. I get it. I don't argue that. What I argue is that we kill our economy in the meantime while nobody spends any money because gas prices are so high.
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I'm advocating a transition.
Gas prices are only going to get worse (china & india are developing)
we need to move over now. Better sooner than later, If we wait it'll only be much more painful.
SURE, Gas prices are certainly inflated right now.
but you're betting on what? that we'll be able to have cheap gas again & forever?
you know it won't happen.

You're basically arguing that the United States alone should put a choke hold on ourselves while no other country does, so a handful of science students can kill the next decade trying to figure out how to make a battery better.
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Not true. other nations have seen the writing on the wall and are leading the way
if you think that we're going to be "leading the world on this" than you would be incorrect -right now we're really behind in many areas.
I don't think you want them to get so far ahead of us we won't be able to catch up

Are we guilty of something?
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It's interesting that you question that.

There's thousands of oil fields out there all over the world (big and small) that haven't been touched. If the big reserves currently being used are ever used up, they'll just start drilling those. I predict that the economy will eventually become bad enough because of high gas prices that we will be drilling our oil within the next few years.
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GHAWAR is the worlds largest oil field (Saudi Arabia) and is running dry...
and the best plausible reason for the Iraq invasion (future Iran conflict).
That's fully 20% of the current oil production of the entire planet.
Most of it goes directly to the USA (history link)
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/2494
The "thousands of untapped oil fields" that you mention simply don't exist.
What it is there is there is a organic material called "kerogen" that's encased in hard rock ("marl")
that is usually prohibitively buried under massive obstructions.
(and I mean massive ... like the rocky mountains)
that would have to be strip mined out to get at them.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/u_s__has_massive_oil.html
Not only is it not "oil" but even when it's processed yields an inferior product after processing in expensive plants.
we would be better off trying to use corn to make ethanol.
It'll be cheaper, but we've already agreed that it's a wasteful approach.

Compare that to something revoltingly treehuggerish like solar
and it's really becomes clear.
For example only 92 square miles of solar generated power would provide for all of the USA's needs.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9775824-7.html
and we avoid the whole nasty thing about "global warming" and "greenhouse effect" from blowing crap into the air.
Since we're agreed that oil is going to run out eventually... best to do it now when it's easy..
not when gas is $25/gallon and the economy is totally wrecked.

About the missle defense; when WW3 starts (and it will sooner than later); do you not want to live in the only country capable of shooting down another country's military satellites? Kinda hard for them to target their missles without GPS
Click to expand...
Um, compartively, I seem to be well informed on such matters.
1. WW III is something to seriously avoid.. NOBODY WINS if the planet is nuked. There's no place to hide once that starts.
Religious nutjobs that believe that it'll bring about "white Jesus on a horse"
are the only ones looking forward to it.
2. China has well demonstrated their ability to shoot down satellites.
http://www.space.com/news/070202_china_spacedebris.html
3. Both Europe and China are have their own GPS systems
(Perhaps not need them to target us at all).
Those two systems are also far more accurate than the USA's?
The required hardware is going up there right now.
Europe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgxnHsjfOx8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_positioning_system

China:
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/080505-busmon-china-beidou.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beidou_navigation_system

Oh and gas prices are around $2.50 a gallon 30 min away from me in Mexico.
(they have a national petrol company that's controlled by the government that's regulated prices)
 
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I'm not going to write up an elaborate reply, as I've already addressed the majority of the issues in my previous posts, but there are a few points that (again) need to be corrected.

Just because some people think that oil is drying up doesn't mean it's agreed to by everyone. Also, when you say "drying up" you make it seem like it'll be gone in the next few years. "Drying up" can mean anything from next year to 400 years from now (or beyond).

There's not as much of a demand for gasoline in Mexico, which is why prices are lower. Just like California being higher priced than most of the country, there's more demand there.

A simple search will show that there are thousands of untapped oil reserves all over the world. Another search will show estimates of what untapped sources lay underneath land masses all over the world, not to mention even that much more off the shorelines of many countries (ours included), which are all conservative estimates. The US uses around 7.5 billion barrels per year; so by these estimates, even with increased demand, we're in good shape for at least another 100+ years. Plenty of time for the high school kids to finish their "high-output battery" science projects.

The minute that the US starts the process of drilling (even the exploration), oil prices will fall a good amount, as will gas prices. Even if it takes us years to get up and running, gas prices will drop immediately. If you don't believe me, write that down and remind me that I'm wrong a month after it happens. The polls on whether we should be drilling or not are raising a few percentage points A DAY (in the poll I was a part of yesterday, 74% of the country agreed that we should be drilling in ANWR or offshore). We'll be drilling very very soon.... Sit back and watch your worst nightmares come true LOL.

Again, solar power isn't refined enough to be worth laying down 92 square miles of solar panels (not suggesting that 92 square miles would be enough to power the country, but if they did try it). Just like the people that had the 6' satellite dishes in the backyard so they could get TV a few years back, it all needs replaced as technology advances; and solar will advance a huge amount in the next decade. Not worth the investment, time, or land. Plus, after the libs build their solar city, they'll just whine that it reflects heat back into the atmosphere and contributes to global warming. Remind me again why nuclear power is of the devil?
 
We seem to be reaching more common ground :)
There's not as much of a demand for gasoline in Mexico, which is why prices are lower. Just like California being higher priced than most of the country, there's more demand there.
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Perhaps, but there is a shortage in northern mexico (border jumpers?)
and yes this state is getting screwed and gouged at the pump. ($4.50/gal)
Bush jr. is trying to get new drilling off the coast but most californians are still against it
rather the public opinion is that we should be moving off of oil all together around here.
Reference. LINK
the minute that the US starts the process of drilling (even the exploration), oil prices will fall a good amount, as will gas prices.
Click to expand...
Funny you just said that the market isn't supply and demand with your above statement.
so what kind of petrol market /economy do we have functioning here?

re: vast reserves
I believe that this nation still has petrol (wisely)
but the figures that show multitudes of possible "oil" sites
are "false"... they include shale oil and other non viable "sources".
either way, it doesn't matter. The writing is on the wall
getting off fossil fuels is something that must be done (global warming/cost)

Other stuff I've come across...
This decade old article predicts this crisis "as a controversial theory" now proven fact.
1998 Doomsayers article

Bush election promises for low gasoline prices (Opposite happens -go figure)
election year false gas hikes gets him elected?

Remind me again why nuclear power is of the devil?
Click to expand...
Four things:
1. Radiation:
It produces tons more poisonous radioactive crap than it takes in
Nobody has a way to dispose of it so that it'll be made "safe".
It will remain toxic for billions of years.
The half-life of U238 is 4.5 billion years all waste tends to escape containment
(hence the name "radiation")
http://www.lbl.gov/abc/Basic.html
2. Monopoly:
Nuclear puts and retains the power in the hands of those that can build such reactors. Collectively a very few energy corporations that can and do not obey the free market but work collectively to jack up prices (Enron/Cal energy crisis)
Whereas, if the open and lower startup solar energy production was implemented, there would be a large amount of smaller companies that will increase competition and services in the marketplace. (american "freemarket"?)
3 Decentralized power generation:
In time of war or disaster there would be a certain amount of insulation by having redundant and independent power generating systems spread about vs only a few sensitive key centers that would be much more open to attack or disturbance.
Lets say, a large California earthquake hits or cyber attack... nuclear shuts down automatically and needs experienced teams to get it back up assuming it's not damaged
Where as solar keeps on going and can be fixed by any local car mechanic and electrician -even if damaged.
4. Time & Expense:
Solar can be up and running within less than a year and for much cheaper overall costs.
Nuclear reactors take years to build and are VERY EXPENSIVE in both overhead and operation.
etc.
 
$4.39 a gallon here in south Seattle, Washington. That's for regular, it goes up to $4.69 a gallon for premium. Or if you go three blocks down the street, that station, still a Shell, it $4.41 for regular. Go figure.
 
I am paying... $4.79ish... my car requires 91 octane... (premium) so..... in the last few weeks i've spent $660 on gass getting to and from work and a few other places on the weekend.... not cheap... and very pissed and... can't afford this for very long....

I live in Lake Forest, CA and commute to Ontario, CA

This is my commute... take the toll road... which is $5 ONE WAY! I take it in the morning if im running late. If I don't take it, its about 52 miles taking the fwy. 5 north-55 north-91east-15north

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=...15,-117.458954&spn=0.810207,1.190643&t=h&z=10
 
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Hey I just wanted to mention something about the defense system. I don't think the system itself is entirely intended to shoot down other countries satellites. Im sure this might be one of its functions, but why would we want to shoot down other countries satellites. I think for the most part, we as a nation promote space exploration. I think they are more interested in using the satellites GPS system to locate and shoot down airborne missiles.
 
You know electric cars are starting to sound better and better every day. Or even just the hybrids, I mean the Volt from Chevy can get 80 miles on a single charge before it kicks in with the gas. That would last me for like....a month 2 months tops before I would need to fill up again.
 
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