What am I doing wrong?

[chamdy]

I just want to cry. My emotions are overwhelming and I have to bury it while in a classroom of 22 students. But my poor mind doesnt stop worrying. I am willing to do what it takes. I have not taken short cuts once I started this adventure. I started with lack of knowledge and the mistake of an egg. But I continue to immerse myself in knowledge and having the proper needs for her.

 

[Beman]

I do but there is no white. That is why I am so distraught. First picture was Monday, the day I started my automatic mister. The second was yesterday. I mist, I fog, I drip, lowest is 55 humidity during the day. Nights have been in the eighties and nineties if I dont run my room heater, but the temp drops to about 63 at night. If I have heater on in room, her cage temp is about 68 but humidity is 77ish. I can reach 83 with a fresh mist, but it doesnt last.

She is pretty dark in early day trying to warm up. Very light and calm during sleep.

So the urate attached to that second pic is showing hydration. It is white on the end. The more she eats the faster everything will go through her system. She will start producing more fecal and urate.

Ambient daytime temps could be a little higher though in the low to mid 70's. Your daytime humidity you want to be more around 50%.
With you running the fogger I would go ahead and remove the 2am misting. All the added moisture is going to make it take longer for the cage to dry out during the day. Put the dripper on first thing in the morning. It should run all day especially since you are not providing any daytime mistings. Make sure it is dripping down on the plant leaves. They can be shy drinkers so you may just not be seeing her drink.

 

[chamdy]

So the urate attached to that second pic is showing hydration. It is white on the end. The more she eats the faster everything will go through her system. She will start producing more fecal and urate.

Ambient daytime temps could be a little higher though in the low to mid 70's. Your daytime humidity you want to be more around 50%.
With you running the fogger I would go ahead and remove the 2am misting. All the added moisture is going to make it take longer for the cage to dry out during the day. Put the dripper on first thing in the morning. It should run all day especially since you are not providing any daytime mistings. Make sure it is dripping down on the plant leaves. They can be shy drinkers so you may just not be seeing her drink.

Thank you, so much. You just relieved an instant pressure from my mind. I will get that dripper on immediately. Could you give me temp range for night and temp range for day. My day are low seventies temp. I was worried low sixties was too low at night. Humidity during the day is 55ish. I think my night humidity started to change when I started to use a heater in my room worried about her night temps

 

[elizaann2]

I just want to cry. My emotions are overwhelming and I have to bury it while in a classroom of 22 students. But my poor mind doesnt stop worrying. I am willing to do what it takes. I have not taken short cuts once I started this adventure. I started with lack of knowledge and the mistake of an egg. But I continue to immerse myself in knowledge and having the proper needs for her

I know its hard, but try not to stress too much just yet. You are doing what you need to do to take care of her and it sounds like you are taking action on any changes needed quickly. Deep breaths, you are doing fine and you are doing your best. We are all here to help you and guide you.

 

[Beman]

Thank you, so much. You just relieved an instant pressure from my mind. I will get that dripper on immediately. Could you give me temp range for night and temp range for day. My day are low seventies temp. I was worried low sixties was too low at night. Humidity during the day is 55ish. I think my night humidity started to change when I started to use a heater in my room worried about her night temps

I personally would not take a hatchling under 65 at night. Just because it can take them time to warm up and since she is too young for a basking fixture it will be harder for her to warm up if temps drop too low at night. Daytime ambient I would keep in that 70-75 range.

Have you thought about turning her cage into more of a hybrid style? You would just cover the back and two sides leaving the front and top screen. This will help the enclosure hold temps and humidity better as well.

 

[chamdy]

So the urate attached to that second pic is showing hydration. It is white on the end. The more she eats the faster everything will go through her system. She will start producing more fecal and urate.

Ambient daytime temps could be a little higher though in the low to mid 70's. Your daytime humidity you want to be more around 50%.
With you running the fogger I would go ahead and remove the 2am misting. All the added moisture is going to make it take longer for the cage to dry out during the day. Put the dripper on first thing in the morning. It should run all day especially since you are not providing any daytime mistings. Make sure it is dripping down on the plant leaves. They can be shy drinkers so you may just not be seeing her drink.

How would you rate this afternoon's?

 

[Kodyf]

You might take him to get a check up with your vet just to be safe since he’s so young to make sure nothing else is wrong that people here can’t see. I hope for the best for you and your Cham.
The urate looks somewhat okay but if your really worried the best option is to get him seen then you would know if something is wrong for certain.

 

[elizaann2]

How would you rate this afternoon's?

Personally I believe I am seeing more white with this poop than the ones you shared this morning.

 

[Beman]

You might take him to get a check up with your vet just to be safe since he’s so young to make sure nothing else is wrong that people here can’t see. I hope for the best for you and your Cham.
The urate looks somewhat okay but if your really worried the best option is to get him seen then you would know if something is wrong for certain.

I would not recommend taking a hatchling this young to a vet.... They are extremely fragile and stress can impact them far worse than a 3 month old.

 

[Beman]

How would you rate this afternoon's?

Honestly it does not look bad to me. I understand your level of stress. Believe it or not where you are at now is almost every new keepers anxiety level. It certainly was mine when I was brand new.

Did you see my post about modifying the cage to be more of a hybrid?

 

[chamdy]

I would not recommend taking a hatchling this young to a vet.... They are extremely fragile and stress can impact them far worse than a 3 month old.

I agree. I know this is husbandary and dialing in my night humidity and temps. I set up my thermastat with probe resting directly on the cage last night to keep ambient temp between 65 and 68 using an external heater. Trends show some drop in temps right around misting times (probe getting wet) but heater brings it back up quickly. Humidity is 96 this morning.

 

[chamdy]

Honestly it does not look bad to me. I understand your level of stress. Believe it or not where you are at now is almost every new keepers anxiety level. It certainly was mine when I was brand new.

Did you see my post about modifying the cage to be more of a hybrid?

I am going to get some of that press and seal to have on the sides to modify it. My large cage already has the plastic shower curtain. When I initially set up I followed all advice, but quickly learned she was going to be in a nano for about two months. I currently have two setups. Her nano and her adult. I just had to pivot and work to quarantee her proper environment.

 

[Beman]

I agree. I know this is husbandary and dialing in my night humidity and temps. I set up my thermastat with probe resting directly on the cage last night to keep ambient temp between 65 and 68 using an external heater. Trends show some drop in temps right around misting times (probe getting wet) but heater brings it back up quickly. Humidity is 96 this morning.

What do you mean by external heater?

Ok I reached out the the owner of framschams. I sent them the pic. He said it looks a little dry. He asked me a few questions. He recommends you do daytime misting sessions. And as long as the cage dries out during the day you will be fine. So I would do one in the morning shortly after lights kick on and then one late afternoon. For a cage that small I feel like 1 minute misting would be good. Really you just want all the plants to be wet and dripping.

 

[Steve A]

My two week old female panther chameleon is active and looks good.

Problem: I dont have white urates...

I mist 3 times at night at 10, 2, and 6 am. I fog thirty minutes on in 30 minute cycles from 10:30 to 6:30 am

I use a dripper in the afternoon, though I dont witness her drinking. She has constant food of fruit flies, bsfl, and pinhead crickets. 70s in temps during the day, 60s at night.

What am I doing wrong?

It looks like you have great help already and I don't have time to read through everyone elses comments right now. However, I feel I've personally learned a lot about hydration and might be of some help.

I have a 10 month old male panther. What I do is, I do my best to make sure the humidity is in the 80s+ at night. With that being said during the winter so far, I've noticed my humidity doesn't get quite as high for him because the heat is on and what not.

It sounds to me like you may need to start fogging continuously (assuming you have a completely open screen enclosure). Sometimes, I have to simply adjust the direction my fogger is going so it gets a little closer to my chameleon. However, I do NOT have the fog hit him directly. I fog him from 1am to 6am, non-stop. I also mist him at 7:30pm, 1:00am, and 6:30am.

If like me, you have forced air (heat) and it's running pretty high, I highly suggest you lower that heat at night if you can set it on a timer. I have mine set to drop down to 70f at 11pm. This gives the space time to adjust and be cooler before 1am. This allows the temps where he's sleeping to get to be around 62-66f. It does vary and sometimes its close to 68f but it always goes under and stays under, especially once the mister turns on at 1am.

I am misting for 2 minutes at each session, and again, once my fogger turns on at 1am, it runs non-stop until 6am. This is what truly keeps his humidity in the 80s.

Sometimes it bounces from the 70s to 80s and I've noticed he's been totally fine. Very white urates, no shedding issues, etc. Usually its bouncing from 80s to 90s but a day here or there in the 70s to 80s seems just fine.

Everyone's setup and situation is different, but to me fogging at 10pm is really early. I think the fogging really isn't necessary until the early morning hours (which is why I start at 1am and keep that going until 6am).

With that being said, maybe your on an entirely different lighting schedule. So that would make sense, if so.

I'll just share my lighting + hydration schedule once more so it's clear what I'm doing and maybe you can take something from this:

7:00am - lights on
7:00pm - lights off
7:30pm - 2 min mist session
1:00am - 2 min mist session, fogger turns on, stays on
6:00am - fogger turns off
6:30am - 2 min mist session

Only thing I'd really adjust on my own schedule is maybe 3 mins misting instead of 2, or where the fog is hitting, if I need to raise the humidity while he's sleeping. However, I've basically been able to maintain the exact same schedule in the winter, as the summer with little change in the humidity (but noticeable at times!) but NO change in my chameleon.

 

[chamdy]

What do you mean by external heater?

Ok I reached out the the owner of framschams. I sent them the pic. He said it looks a little dry. He asked me a few questions. He recommends you do daytime misting sessions. And as long as the cage dries out during the day you will be fine. So I would do one in the morning shortly after lights kick on and then one late afternoon. For a cage that small I feel like 1 minute misting would be good. Really you just want all the plants to be wet and dripping.

I have space heater in my room connected to my thermastat. Ambient room temp is about 68 but her cage during misting and fogging times drops below 65. Its recommended not to drop so the heater kicks on to help warm up around her enclosure. Fogging and misting i get the humidity on point, but now have these low temps.

 

[Steve A]

I have space heater in my room connected to my thermastat. Ambient room temp is about 68 but her cage during misting and fogging times drops below 65. Its recommended not to drop so the heater kicks on to help warm up around her enclosure. Fogging and misting i get the humidity on point, but now have these low temps.

Please take what I say with a grain of salt but what jumps out to me is the external heater. If your temps are in the 60s (f) at night.... that should be perfect (unless its different for hatchlings?)

But regardless, to me your humidity issue IS that heater. That is surely sucking the humidity out of your enclosure while it's on.

You do want your temps to lower at night, while raising humidity. But I don't know about caring for hatchlings specifically, so I don't know exact numbers on where they should be. If its the same as juveniles/adults.... then I'd immediately get rid of the heater as your numbers look perfect without it.

 

[chamdy]

Please take what I say with a grain of salt but what jumps out to me is the external heater. If your temps are in the 60s (f) at night.... that should be perfect (unless its different for hatchlings?)

But regardless, to me your humidity issue IS that heater. That is surely sucking the humidity out of your enclosure while it's on.

You do want your temps to lower at night, while raising humidity. But I don't know about caring for hatchlings specifically, so I don't know exact numbers on where they should be. If its the same as juveniles/adults.... then I'd immediately get rid of the heater as your numbers look perfect without it.

Thank you. I thought I was on point as well. But with a hatchling the drops below 65 is hard for them to warm up in the morning because they dont have a designated basking spot.

 

[Steve A]

Thank you. I thought I was on point as well. But with a hatchling the drops below 65 is hard for them to warm up in the morning because they dont have a designated basking spot.

Well yeah they def need to warm up in the morning (and not too much for hatchlings to my understanding).

IMO, I'd drop the heat at night and then in the morning, figure out a way to raise the heat to desired levels at the TOP of the enclosure. You still want a gradient temp going down as you get lower in the enclosure so they can cool off if they need.

 

[chamdy]

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I can hang a heat lamp above the cage 6-8 inches that allows a soft heat to come down during the day and do a day misting.

 

[Steve A]

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I can hang a heat lamp above the cage 6-8 inches that allows a soft heat to come down during the day and do a day misting.

Well be careful if you do that.... I almost feel like your ambient temps in your home should be good alone. If you use that please make sure it's strictly controlled and you are monitoring it very closely to make sure it's not cooking your hatchling.

What temps does your home get to during the day? I would probably opt to trying just letting it go for a day, monitor the temps at the top branches of his enclosure, and see what you get.

I mean its not gonna be COOLER most likely during the day, right? I'm just really keeping my house around 70-73f during the day and then make sure it stays at 70f max at night.