WHat Age to Lay Infertile Clutch

[KShook]

Hello All...

I know that theres not an "Exact Answer" to my question, but would like a General Idea...I took over my friends Famale Panther..Who is now 1 year and 4 months old..and has not yet layed an Infertile CLutch...For those of you who have female panthers can you tell me when your cham layed her first clutch?? I'm getting x-rays done this Tuesday of her to see whats going on..also has anyone ever used Oxytocin "used to Induce" her to lay her eggs before?? If so..at what point do you use the drug to help her lay her eggs..?? ANyways if you could help that would be awesome!!!

Thanks Everyone!

KShook

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Is there any reason to think shes eggbound? Is plump looking. Looks like they have a sack of marbles in the belly. Has she gone off feed for several days/week or more. Is she roaming her cage/specifically the bottom floor area. Those are all sgns shes carry eggs and looking to lay. If she roams for many days and wont lay then you would go the oxy route. First give her a chance to dig and lay naturally.

 

[KShook]

Hey Texas,

My cham has quite a bit of issues..not sure if you've ready any of my previous threads on her..anyways...she's "Falling, off balance, tounge aim is off, etc." I had her on Baytril for 2 weeks..no worse or better from that, now shes on cal. glucionate twice a week...I took her from a friend of mine who had poor cham. husbandry and I'm trying to bring her back from it..but it's a year worths of damage..so we'll see..anyways, I was reading an atricle that a member gave me on here about "Female Care Only" and some of the symptoms are what I stated..not to say thats whats wrong with her..I'm just worried since she is "Over a Year" this could be part of her issues going on??? She's never layed a clutch...I had a laying bin in there for her..hmm about 2-ish months ago..showed no intrest in it..so i removed it since she falls numerious times a day and did not want her to get hurt...But X-rays on tuesday will tell me if she does have eggs..

Is there any reason to think shes eggbound? Is plump looking. Looks like they have a sack of marbles in the belly. Has she gone off feed for several days/week or more. Is she roaming her cage/specifically the bottom floor area. Those are all sgns shes carry eggs and looking to lay. If she roams for many days and wont lay then you would go the oxy route. First give her a chance to dig and lay naturally.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Since shes on meds she prob isnt eating. Is she pooping? They will get constipated if theyve got eggs blocking things up. Have you felt her? If she hasnt been w/ a male and she was not properly cared for she may not have produced any eggs yet. Was she underfed? Kept at low temps/high temps? So many things control egg production in females. If shes eating and pooing i dont think shes eggbound. Glad to see shes finally struck gold with a good caring owner. Good luck keep us posted.

 

[KShook]

she's only on calcium..she still eats and poops yeah I know the temps and feeding and all that factor into when she may lay...but that I have no idea??? i have felt her..I swear i feel something in there..but i'm not 100% sure on it?? Will do I'll let you know when I get the x-rays done!

Thanks a BUnch

Since shes on meds she prob isnt eating. Is she pooping? They will get constipated if theyve got eggs blocking things up. Have you felt her? If she hasnt been w/ a male and she was not properly cared for she may not have produced any eggs yet. Was she underfed? Kept at low temps/high temps? So many things control egg production in females. If shes eating and pooing i dont think shes eggbound. Glad to see shes finally struck gold with a good caring owner. Good luck keep us posted.

 

[kinyonga]

They can still poop and eat and be eggbound....and its going to be hard to know if her falling and balance are signs going down hill because of eggbinding or from MBD...or just the bad care you said she has had.

Regarding oxytocin...it will likely only work if its near the chameleon's "time" to lay eggs and might even cause problems if given at other times.

You said..."now shes on cal. glucionate twice a week"...did the vet test her calcium levels or are there obvious signs (crooked arms/lets, lack of trunkal lifting, etc.) of calcium issues/MBD? (Falling, tongue issues can be signs of MBD but can also occur for other reasons.) If its MBD the quickest way to correct it is for the vet to give calcium injections until the blood calcium levels are high enough for the chameleon to have a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium rapidly back into the bones.

Hopefully the x-ray will show not only the eggs but the bone "density" too.
Eggs should show up as ovals while follicles that have not ovulated yet should show up as round...BTW.

Hope she will be okay.

 

[Elizadolots]

As she's going to the Vet's on Tuesday, I think you'll have your answers soon. The X-ray will show if there are eggs.

My only experience with Oxytocin is very personal...as in, I got a load of it when I was failing to deliver my human child. I still find it surprising that it works on reptiles...I guess we do all go back to some common ancestry.

Is there a reason you are asking this beyond the many scary threads on this forum? Because, boring as this idea is, it's possible your friend who gave you the chameleon read up on how to prevent them from producing eggs. Unless you are seeing signs of eggs (loss of appetite, spending time at the bottom of the cage, "digging" at the bottom of the cage and some color displays that I don't remember because they don't apply to my animals..) I wouldn't jump to the "egg" idea.

kinyonga and Brad Ramsey can both provide lots of help with that for the future.

 

[reptoman]

Hi KShook
I got some good advice on this thread a while back. My female ended up laying a fertile clutch 1 month after dropping 21 eggs on the bottom of her cage over the course of a week. I did not have to get the vet to inject oxytocin. I think the problem with her dropping her eggs was the laying bin and the medium that i used first. I still have 9 eggs of the first clutch collected from the bottom of the cage that are doing well. The 2nd fertile clutch had 23 and all are looking good so far.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/egg-bottom-cage-33059/

 

[chamlover]

Are you sure of her age? She sounds just like my girl who by the way is past her prime. Of course when i got her she was w/c (part of a trio i purchased) and looked gravid. Turned out she was just plump (being nice she's sitting on my shoulder). After 3 years she never laid eggs even after mating. Ending up finding out she is a senior citizen and losing their grip seems to be one of the first problems they have when aging. Still not sure how old she is but boy she looks old. lol. Now she just relaxes in her senior adapted cage so she can't fall and get hurt. Good luck and let us know what happens.

I also had a female panther that was egg-bound a long time ago and she required 4 shots of oxy within a months time before she laid all her eggs. What a nightmare. IF and WHEN they are ready the oxy will work, if not it won't. And a vet shouldn't have to do an x-ray to tell if she has eggs. If he pulpates her stomach correctly he SHOULD be able to feel them.

 

[KShook]

Kinyonga, We have not yet done and test on her calcium levels..but I know for a fact that the UV Lights my friend had on her were garbage..and as far as supplimenting can also be questionable..but even so..without the good UV Lights..she wouldnt have gotten any calcium..maybe a little, but not enough...Yeah I figured the X-Rays will help us determin her bone density, and also to see if she has eggs...I'll let you know what the outcome is on Tuesday, and I'll post her x-rays on here to!

Thanks a bunch for all your help and advice BTW!! YOu have no idea how much I appreciate it!

They can still poop and eat and be eggbound....and its going to be hard to know if her falling and balance are signs going down hill because of eggbinding or from MBD...or just the bad care you said she has had.

Regarding oxytocin...it will likely only work if its near the chameleon's "time" to lay eggs and might even cause problems if given at other times.

You said..."now shes on cal. glucionate twice a week"...did the vet test her calcium levels or are there obvious signs (crooked arms/lets, lack of trunkal lifting, etc.) of calcium issues/MBD? (Falling, tongue issues can be signs of MBD but can also occur for other reasons.) If its MBD the quickest way to correct it is for the vet to give calcium injections until the blood calcium levels are high enough for the chameleon to have a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium rapidly back into the bones.

Hopefully the x-ray will show not only the eggs but the bone "density" too.
Eggs should show up as ovals while follicles that have not ovulated yet should show up as round...BTW.

Hope she will be okay.

 

[KShook]

ChamLover:

Heyy Yeah I we actually brought our friends with us to the "Pomona Reptile Super Show January of 2009" with us...They got her from "Amazing Blue Reptiles" at the time she was 3 months old CB...So I know they got her from a reputable breeder, and she was in good health at the time.

Are you sure of her age? She sounds just like my girl who by the way is past her prime. Of course when i got her she was w/c (part of a trio i purchased) and looked gravid. Turned out she was just plump (being nice she's sitting on my shoulder). After 3 years she never laid eggs even after mating. Ending up finding out she is a senior citizen and losing their grip seems to be one of the first problems they have when aging. Still not sure how old she is but boy she looks old. lol. Now she just relaxes in her senior adapted cage so she can't fall and get hurt. Good luck and let us know what happens.

I also had a female panther that was egg-bound a long time ago and she required 4 shots of oxy within a months time before she laid all her eggs. What a nightmare. IF and WHEN they are ready the oxy will work, if not it won't. And a vet shouldn't have to do an x-ray to tell if she has eggs. If he pulpates her stomach correctly he SHOULD be able to feel them.

 

[KShook]

Reptoman:

Thanks for the thread I'll read it in just a bit! Ahh overload of info! But the more the better! Thanks everyone!

Hi KShook
I got some good advice on this thread a while back. My female ended up laying a fertile clutch 1 month after dropping 21 eggs on the bottom of her cage over the course of a week. I did not have to get the vet to inject oxytocin. I think the problem with her dropping her eggs was the laying bin and the medium that i used first. I still have 9 eggs of the first clutch collected from the bottom of the cage that are doing well. The 2nd fertile clutch had 23 and all are looking good so far.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/egg-bottom-cage-33059/