What about no light for a few days?

[broderp]

I'm working on making an automated humidity and temp control for my Veiled cham.

In the wild, I'm sure it gets cloudy or overcast with little to no sunlight and maybe even rain, making it somewhat miserable. Right?

So what if this is simulated in a terrarium for a cham? Are ours so far removed from thier relatives in the wild that a day or two of minimal lighting would be detrimental?

Why you ask? Because the circuit I designed so far relies on the SUN to control the basking lamp. If there is no sun out or it's cloudy it could prevent the circuit from fully illuminating the light/ heat bulb. I want to keep my setup simple, one heat/illumination bulb, one UVB bulb and his humidifier.

I'm toying with the pros and cons of a design with either a ON/OFF sensor such as for automatic dusk to dawn lights or a more complicated variable dimmer type control that will vary the light based on the amount of sunshine the sensor recieves (copying sunrise and sunset).

What I want to avoid is having to program anything or spend a lot of $$$$$. (Otherwise I would just go buy the Spyder robotics Herpstat 4! )

 

[kevbek]

I'm working on making an automated humidity and temp control for my Veiled cham.

In the wild, I'm sure it gets cloudy or overcast with little to no sunlight and maybe even rain, making it somewhat miserable. Right?

So what if this is simulated in a terrarium for a cham? Are ours so far removed from thier relatives in the wild that a day or two of minimal lighting would be detrimental?

Why you ask? Because the circuit I designed so far relies on the SUN to control the basking lamp. If there is no sun out or it's cloudy it could prevent the circuit from fully illuminating the light/ heat bulb. I want to keep my setup simple, one heat/illumination bulb, one UVB bulb and his humidifier.

I'm toying with the pros and cons of a design with either a ON/OFF sensor such as for automatic dusk to dawn lights or a more complicated variable dimmer type control that will vary the light based on the amount of sunshine the sensor recieves (copying sunrise and sunset).

What I want to avoid is having to program anything or spend a lot of $$$$$. (Otherwise I would just go buy the Spyder robotics Herpstat 4! )

I just wouldn't trust it. even if they could go a day, or even two, what if your weather just gets really bad at some point and he doesn't have light for a week? i think on/off is just enough. But thats just me

 

[FlChamMom]

I know that they can survive for a few days without UV and basking in emergency situations but what you are describing sounds like it would be more regular occurrence. Since basking helps digestion as well as regulating temperatures I would think it would be hard for your cham to thrive without controlled temps. My setup is as simple as you can get- lights are set on a 12 on 12 off timer and my mister is set to an automatic timer as well. The solar power factor sound pretty cool- is there a way to have an electric backup for cloudy days?

 

[IvoryBolt]

Even though it may be cloudy, UVB does still get through the overcast ness...(something being from a mountain state has taught me..rainy day? you can still get sunburned xD)

 

[Carlton]

I'm working on making an automated humidity and temp control for my Veiled cham.

In the wild, I'm sure it gets cloudy or overcast with little to no sunlight and maybe even rain, making it somewhat miserable. Right?

So what if this is simulated in a terrarium for a cham? Are ours so far removed from thier relatives in the wild that a day or two of minimal lighting would be detrimental?

Why you ask? Because the circuit I designed so far relies on the SUN to control the basking lamp. If there is no sun out or it's cloudy it could prevent the circuit from fully illuminating the light/ heat bulb. I want to keep my setup simple, one heat/illumination bulb, one UVB bulb and his humidifier.

I'm toying with the pros and cons of a design with either a ON/OFF sensor such as for automatic dusk to dawn lights or a more complicated variable dimmer type control that will vary the light based on the amount of sunshine the sensor recieves (copying sunrise and sunset).

What I want to avoid is having to program anything or spend a lot of $$$$$. (Otherwise I would just go buy the Spyder robotics Herpstat 4! )

Something to consider is that our artificial lighting does not provide the same amount of UV the sun can on a daily basis, and we know that wild chams don't just sit out in full sun all day. Their exposure varies all the time even if the weather doesn't. Lots of variability and we really don't have a clue how this affects the cham's daily, weekly, monthly health status either. We don't know how much a particularly bad stretch of weather affects survival...or how many less than perfect chams die as a result. And, because our captive diets are not as complete or varied as a wild diet we need to pay more attention to the UV/D3/calcium/phosphorus balance we provide captive chams. We don't really know how close to a "minimum acceptable threshold" all these captive aspects are either until our chams end up with metabolic deficiencies. I don't think I'd want to push it.

IMHO, trying to program in some sort of daily variability in lighting seems to be overthinking it. And, relying on complicated controllers just adds to the number of things that can go wrong even if your programming is spot on. If I had only a solar powered home, I would worry about maintaining a steady level for all my home power draws, not a cham setup individually.

But, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are hoping to do by using a solar system for your cham setup.

 

[broderp]

I just wouldn't trust it. even if they could go a day, or even two, what if your weather just gets really bad at some point and he doesn't have light for a week? i think on/off is just enough. But thats just me

This may be true to a certain extent. I need to do some more testing. I bought some Dusk to Dawn light controls from Lowes this evening and will test what the thresh hold for light is. My original statement may have been a slight exaggeration. Especially if those dimmer controls can still turn on and off in overcast weather. I've never used them. Cloudy doesn't mean no light. Thanks for your comments though, I appreciate this. You guys are helping me brainstorm this crazy idea.

I know that they can survive for a few days without UV and basking in emergency situations but what you are describing sounds like it would be more regular occurrence. Since basking helps digestion as well as regulating temperatures I would think it would be hard for your cham to thrive without controlled temps. My setup is as simple as you can get- lights are set on a 12 on 12 off timer and my mister is set to an automatic timer as well. The solar power factor sound pretty cool- is there a way to have an electric backup for cloudy days?

Good points. I was not thinking the siduation would ever last more than a afternoon or evening. It would have to be pretty bad outside to keep it so dark that the circuit I'm looking at would keep the light out for more than an evening. (hopefully after I test the dusk to dawn dimmer controls I bought) I'm in Ohio, so our weather is not crazy bad as far as light is concerned.

I have a mister set to a timer, but the shortest run cycle sends the humidity up to 90% or more within minutes. I'm adding a humidy control circuit to turn on the humidifier only if required (Between the safe 40-7-%) My design is not solar powered, I'm using a photo cell sensor to tell my circuit when it's daylight and when it's night time so the lights will turn off automatically with the outside lighting. This way he will also stay current with the seasons. On and off is the easy part. I want a "soft start" or sunrise sunset type of affect for his light as well. This is the devil I'm working on.

Even though it may be cloudy, UVB does still get through the overcast ness...(something being from a mountain state has taught me..rainy day? you can still get sunburned xD)

Good points here too..I was not sure how to handle his UVB light. I was considering putting it on the same circuit as his main/basking lamp. My last idea was to have the UVB light come on just after his main/basking lamp. But this is proving to add complexity and cost.

 

[broderp]

Something to consider is that our artificial lighting does not provide the same amount of UV the sun can on a daily basis, and we know that wild chams don't just sit out in full sun all day. Their exposure varies all the time even if the weather doesn't. Lots of variability and we really don't have a clue how this affects the cham's daily, weekly, monthly health status either. We don't know how much a particularly bad stretch of weather affects survival...or how many less than perfect chams die as a result. And, because our captive diets are not as complete or varied as a wild diet we need to pay more attention to the UV/D3/calcium/phosphorus balance we provide captive chams. We don't really know how close to a "minimum acceptable threshold" all these captive aspects are either until our chams end up with metabolic deficiencies. I don't think I'd want to push it.

IMHO, trying to program in some sort of daily variability in lighting seems to be over thinking it. And, relying on complicated controllers just adds to the number of things that can go wrong even if your programming is spot on. If I had only a solar powered home, I would worry about maintaining a steady level for all my home power draws, not a cham setup individually.

But, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are hoping to do by using a solar system for your cham setup.

I'm think I may not have been very clear in my first post. I get that a lot.

You're info on UV and D3 etc. is very good stuff and I read it carefully. I'm a bit surprised that there isn't more known about Chams, and their diet and UV/UVB requirements. It's not like they are so rare that hardly anyone has ever studied them. But none the less, I feel you are right.

I'm not thinking of adding variability to the lighting. Just automating the control of it more precisely. I'm an EE by schooling, and electrical is my stuff. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here, and I intend to use off the shelf technology and parts. It's in how I connect and join them is where the difficulty has creeped in. I do not intend to program anything. (I quite honestly do know how. lol) It will be all solid state or analog controls. This is fun for me.

I'm also fairly handy with making things. I worked for several years while in college as an engineering tech, and have access to all the right tools. I also have plenty of EE associates I can bounce ideas off of and get insight into proving out ideas and theory. In my current job, that I have had for almost 18 years now I am a field engineer for the company I work for and I diagnose and troubleshoot electrical and mechanical issues in our equipment daily.

So what does that mean? It means I am confident I can do this, and build a nice looking controller. Because I am using all known technology, I feel I have a high probability of having a stable controller for my terrarium. My biggest fear is cost. I started this because I didn't want to fork over the $300-$400 for a controller like the Herpstat 4 or an Ecozone one. I'm spending some cash now, so hopefully I can keep this under my target of $200. Plus if it works out, I can always repair, upgrade as I want because I know the design.