josh payette
New Member
Does anyone have werner chams and if so how are they to take care of compared to panters? I'm thinking of geting a pair to start breeding. Any info will be appreciated.
werner chameleon
- Thread starter josh payette
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josh payette
New Member
Does no one have these chams
but you just did compare the two by saying they are different and more difficult to raise... just an observation.
thephotoprincess
Avid Member
I do not have werners but I have other montane species. In general they need cooler temps and higher humidity.
I'm sure if you search the forum you will find better info on their care and decide if they are right for you.
I'm sure if you search the forum you will find better info on their care and decide if they are right for you.
That would be contrasting, not comparing...just an observation.
mbondy
New Member
I found a brief thread with some information that was created by moderator, Trace. You should go ahead and send Trace a PM for more information. To be honest you probably should start out with a male and see if you can properly take care of them before getting a female and breeding. They need VERY high humidity requirements. Anyways, here is what she had written...
"To expand upon a few thoughts already brought up on this thread, werneri should not be housed together. They are not what are considered to be a communal living chameleon and you should consider separating them as soon as you can. Yes, it looks like they get along, but what you are seeing is not healthy chameleon behaviour(s). In reality, males and females do not co-habitat in the wild so they should be kept as so in captivity. I've found the females to be fairly sedentary during the day so a huge cage isn't needed but the males do like to roam about so larger is preferred.
You don't mention your humidity at all, but I kept my werneri at 70-80% during the day with 100% overnights. High, high humidity is crucial to all species of chameleons but particularly the montanes.
Temperatures should not get above 80-85F daily and the werneri can certainly tolerate temps into the low 60's at night.
Gestation on the werneri varies from 5-10 months but my girls have always given birth at about the 6 month mark. For the few days leading up to birthing, they are very active and usually go off food. The females give birth in the morning after they've warmed up and it takes only a few hours. DO NOT watch them during the birthing process. It's really cool to see, but most females are very shy about the process and you could end up doing more harm than good by standing there. Contrary to what has been said in this thread, females DO NOT eat their babies! It's ok the leave them in the cage with mom for a while. Obviously you should remove the babies for rearing separately when mom is finished the birthing process.
Now for the bad news. Live bearing babies of any species are notoriously hard to keep/rear in captivity. They seem to do really well for about 8 weeks then all of the sudden drop dead for no reason. This is why you don't see many CB ovoviviparous species sadly. Obviously some do make it, but the losses greatly outnumber them. To get back to the communal/non-communal comment I made earlier, I've had more success with my baby werneri if I raised them individually from the get go. I work with several "communal" type live bearing chameleon species as well and those babies/litters can be raised together. Not the werneri. Baby cages need not be fancy! A line of kritter keepers under a UV bulb is fine. Humidity, again, must be 80% or more consistently for internal organ growth. Misting must also be done very frequently over the course of a day. The babies are tiny and any appropriate sized feeder bugs are accepted by the babies. I use FF's and pinhead or 1/8" crickets."
eisentrauti
Avid Member
well, it's good that some people think about "breeding" such species, but there are galaxys between real breeding Trioceros werneri and Furcifer pardalis. I bet not even 10 people here in this forum really breed werneris. Breeding is something else then buying a WC pair, where nearly all females are already gravid. It's even difficult to get juveniles from gravid females. If you want to start with montane species keep in mind the real low night temps they need to be kept for years !
Guys like seeco are good examples of how to deal with such species: Buy as large groups as possible and then care well for them. For the real difficult species groups of minimum 3.5 healthy, stable adults are needed. Everything else is done with good intention but without real chances for the future. Those species, including werneri, are still not even close of beeing established in captivity and I personally doubt that they will ever be
So I wont destroy your plans, but witout big groups and the perfect conditions it's just another trial and error thing.
Since many chams like werneris arent really expensive in the US I would recommend to buy a large group - or nothing
Guys like seeco are good examples of how to deal with such species: Buy as large groups as possible and then care well for them. For the real difficult species groups of minimum 3.5 healthy, stable adults are needed. Everything else is done with good intention but without real chances for the future. Those species, including werneri, are still not even close of beeing established in captivity and I personally doubt that they will ever be
So I wont destroy your plans, but witout big groups and the perfect conditions it's just another trial and error thing.
Since many chams like werneris arent really expensive in the US I would recommend to buy a large group - or nothing
Seeco
Avid Member
I'm gonna have to second the above statement 
With a modification -- I started with just a trio and then said to myself "I have the space and I'm still gonna need a mist system, bugs from the petstore, etc so I'd might as well go bigtime." IF you think more werners will be available you can start off small and then expand but you never know if they will be there when you want more of them...
With a modification -- I started with just a trio and then said to myself "I have the space and I'm still gonna need a mist system, bugs from the petstore, etc so I'd might as well go bigtime." IF you think more werners will be available you can start off small and then expand but you never know if they will be there when you want more of them...
josh payette
New Member
Thanks for the help.
I think I'll try the werners. My meller and two panthers are doing great. Just built new cage system that will hold six cham's. It has plastic sides half way up, so I think the humidity will be good. The temp will be another thing. I'll just have to get a big ass AC.
I think I'll try the werners. My meller and two panthers are doing great. Just built new cage system that will hold six cham's. It has plastic sides half way up, so I think the humidity will be good. The temp will be another thing. I'll just have to get a big ass AC.
touche lol but your logic is slightly flawed as your still technically comparing the two. and if you want to really get into technicalities the definition of contrast is... to compare in order to show unlikeness or differences. therefore, in comparison the panthers are harder to maintain. nice try though.
Elizadolots
New Member
Josh, I didn't reply because you mentioned breeding and I absolutely do not want to go there. I do have a male Werner's. He's very pretty and really no more difficult to care for than my Fischer's. I mist him more, that's about it.
In one sense, I think the "montane 'species are easier to care for because you can, generally, say that if you're comfortable with the temperature, they are reasonably comfortable. It really isn't necessary to raise the temperature much in the basking area and, in fact, it's often necessary to cool things down, just as it is for the humans on a warm day. That seems particularly true of the Werners'.
I think the perception that they are more difficult comes from people switching over to the "montane" species after keeping Panthers and Veileds. It's like switching from PC to Mac or Standard Transmission to Automatic Transmission. Neither is really harder, but if you're used to one, the other seems harder.
Seeco
Avid Member
Well said!
josh payette
New Member
Thanks.
It looks like I will give them a try. The breeding part is that I don't see any cb werners out there for sale.
It looks like I will give them a try. The breeding part is that I don't see any cb werners out there for sale.
Elizadolots
New Member
I just realized I was confused on what I actually have....it's a Wiedersheimi, not a Werners.
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Cainschams
New Member
Gotta start somewhere. Just be prepared and have your cages running perfect before you get the animals. WCs are not going to be forgiving to husbandry that is not near perfect. Chad from tikitikireptiles has/had a few for sale. Those would be the way to go since they have been in captivity for a while.
