Weird Yawning? (Previous RI Issues)

peridot

Member
  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled chameleon, had since August of last year.
  • Feeding - Crickets, Super Worms, Coachs, Wax Worms, horn worms when available. I gutload all my bugs with dandelion, mustard greens, sweat potato and apples.
  • Supplements - Repti Calcium Without D3 and Herptivite multivitamin. Use Calcium without D3 daily. Use multivitamin several times a month.
  • Watering - I have a misting system that goes off twice in the morning and once in the afternoon. It runs for 2 minutes each time.
  • Fecal Description - He's been tested for parasites and it came back negative.
  • History - Purchased from PetSmart.
  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze screen cage, size large.
  • Lighting - 100w basking bulb , Reptisun 10.0 HO UVB Bulb
  • Temperature - The cage stays about 70-90 depending on area.
  • Humidity - Around 50 percent during his "dry" period. 60-70 percent while reptifogger is running.
  • Location - North Carolina
Cucumber had previously been sick and stopped eating. The vet diagnosed him with a RI after he went a whole month without eating and we started treatments, which were an antibiotic (every 3 days), oral calcium, and an anti-inflammatory. He has since stopped all the medicines. He was doing amazing, eating so much food that we almost couldn't keep enough crickets before he ate them all. However, he stopped eating again on Saturday. This afternoon I saw him do a weird "yawn". He opened his mouth like a normal yawn, but kind of slithered his body like a snake. His white stripes darkened like he was stressed. Should I be worried? Could the vet have taken him off his antibiotics too soon? Or is it normal for them to darken when they yawn? I was also concerned by is weird movement. What is everyone's opinions?
 
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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled chameleon, had since August of last year.
  • Feeding - Crickets, Super Worms, Coachs, Wax Worms, horn worms when available. I gutload all my bugs with dandelion, mustard greens, sweat potato and apples.
  • Supplements - Repti Calcium Without D3 and Herptivite multivitamin. Use Calcium without D3 daily. Use multivitamin several times a month.
  • Watering - I have a misting system that goes off twice in the morning and once in the afternoon. It runs for 2 minutes each time.
  • Fecal Description - He's been tested for parasites and it came back negative.
  • History - Purchased from PetSmart.
  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze screen cage, size large.
  • Lighting - 100w basking bulb , Reptisun 10.0 HO UVB Bulb
  • Temperature - The cage stays about 70-90 depending on area.
  • Humidity - Around 50 percent during his "dry" period. 60-70 percent while reptifogger is running.
  • Location - North Carolina
Cucumber had previously been sick and stopped eating. The vet diagnosed him with a RI after he went a whole month without eating and we started treatments, which were an antibiotic (every 3 days), oral calcium, and an anti-inflammatory. He has since stopped all the medicines. He was doing amazing, eating so much food that we almost couldn't keep enough crickets before he ate them all. However, he stopped eating again on Saturday. This afternoon I saw him do a weird "yawn". He opened his mouth like a normal yawn, but kind of slithered his body like a snake. His white stripes darkened like he was stressed. Should I be worried? Could the vet have taken him off his antibiotics too soon? Or is it normal for them to darken when they yawn? I was also concerned by is weird movement. What is everyone's opinions?



Hi there. Welcome to the forum. See my notes in Red. I would love for you to post pics of his enclosure lights down as well.


  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled chameleon, had since August of last year.
  • Feeding - Crickets, Super Worms, Coachs, Wax Worms, horn worms when available. I gutload all my bugs with dandelion, mustard greens, sweat potato and apples. Gutload should be more diverse and rotated with different items each week and with mostly leafy greens. see image below.
  • Supplements - Repti Calcium Without D3 and Herptivite multivitamin. Use Calcium without D3 daily. Use multivitamin several times a month. How often are you using the Herptivite? This should only be two times a month. You should also have a calcium with D3 two times a month.
  • Watering - I have a misting system that goes off twice in the morning and once in the afternoon. It runs for 2 minutes each time.
  • Fecal Description - He's been tested for parasites and it came back negative.
  • History - Purchased from PetSmart.
  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze screen cage, size large. You will want to make sure that he has a 2x2x4 foot screen cage. Males really need this size as a minimum.
  • Lighting - 100w basking bulb , Reptisun 10.0 HO UVB Bulb
  • Temperature - The cage stays about 70-90 depending on area.
  • Humidity - Around 50 percent during his "dry" period. 60-70 percent while reptifogger is running. Are you running the fogger during the day?
  • Location - North Carolina
Cucumber had previously been sick and stopped eating. The vet diagnosed him with a RI after he went a whole month without eating and we started treatments, which were an antibiotic (every 3 days), oral calcium, and an anti-inflammatory. He has since stopped all the medicines. He was doing amazing, eating so much food that we almost couldn't keep enough crickets before he ate them all. However, he stopped eating again on Saturday. This afternoon I saw him do a weird "yawn". He opened his mouth like a normal yawn, but kind of slithered his body like a snake. His white stripes darkened like he was stressed. Should I be worried? Could the vet have taken him off his antibiotics too soon? Or is it normal for them to darken when they yawn? I was also concerned by is weird movement. What is everyone's opinions?

Is he acting like he is about to start a shed? They will puff and their body almost does like a wave to it when they are getting close to a shed. Are you seeing any signs like before when he had the RI? If you are running the fogger during the day when his lights are on then this can cause them to get an RI. Heat plus moisture is not a good thing for them. If you could post pics and answer my questions this would give us a bit more to go on. :)

Supplements pic.jpeg
Gutloading 101.jpeg
Basic Feeder pic.jpeg
 

peridot

Member
Hi there. Welcome to the forum. See my notes in Red. I would love for you to post pics of his enclosure lights down as well.

  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled chameleon, had since August of last year.
  • Feeding - Crickets, Super Worms, Coachs, Wax Worms, horn worms when available. I gutload all my bugs with dandelion, mustard greens, sweat potato and apples. Gutload should be more diverse and rotated with different items each week and with mostly leafy greens. see image below.
  • Supplements - Repti Calcium Without D3 and Herptivite multivitamin. Use Calcium without D3 daily. Use multivitamin several times a month. How often are you using the Herptivite? This should only be two times a month. You should also have a calcium with D3 two times a month.
  • Watering - I have a misting system that goes off twice in the morning and once in the afternoon. It runs for 2 minutes each time.
  • Fecal Description - He's been tested for parasites and it came back negative.
  • History - Purchased from PetSmart.
  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze screen cage, size large. You will want to make sure that he has a 2x2x4 foot screen cage. Males really need this size as a minimum.
  • Lighting - 100w basking bulb , Reptisun 10.0 HO UVB Bulb
  • Temperature - The cage stays about 70-90 depending on area.
  • Humidity - Around 50 percent during his "dry" period. 60-70 percent while reptifogger is running. Are you running the fogger during the day?
  • Location - North Carolina
Cucumber had previously been sick and stopped eating. The vet diagnosed him with a RI after he went a whole month without eating and we started treatments, which were an antibiotic (every 3 days), oral calcium, and an anti-inflammatory. He has since stopped all the medicines. He was doing amazing, eating so much food that we almost couldn't keep enough crickets before he ate them all. However, he stopped eating again on Saturday. This afternoon I saw him do a weird "yawn". He opened his mouth like a normal yawn, but kind of slithered his body like a snake. His white stripes darkened like he was stressed. Should I be worried? Could the vet have taken him off his antibiotics too soon? Or is it normal for them to darken when they yawn? I was also concerned by is weird movement. What is everyone's opinions?

Is he acting like he is about to start a shed? They will puff and their body almost does like a wave to it when they are getting close to a shed. Are you seeing any signs like before when he had the RI? If you are running the fogger during the day when his lights are on then this can cause them to get an RI. Heat plus moisture is not a good thing for them. If you could post pics and answer my questions this would give us a bit more to go on. :)

-I stopped using calcium with D3 because my doctor advised against it while he had the RI. I had previously used it. I'm using the Herptivitie about twice a month. Once at the beginning and once at the end.

- His cage is 48 x 24 x 24 inches!

- I had been running the fogger all day, because the vet wanted me to keep his humidity up while he was sick.

He did yawn like this while he had the RI. But he is also finishing up a shed right now. So, I'm not sure if that could be it?

Attached is the photo of his enclosure and lights. I use the Reptisun 10.0 HO UVB Bulb, and actually now I have the 75w basking bulb now. I also have 2 ceramic heaters that I can turn on and off if needed.
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
-I stopped using calcium with D3 because my doctor advised against it while he had the RI. I had previously used it. I'm using the Herptivitie about twice a month. Once at the beginning and once at the end.

- His cage is 48 x 24 x 24 inches!

- I had been running the fogger all day, because the vet wanted me to keep his humidity up while he was sick.

He did yawn like this while he had the RI. But he is also finishing up a shed right now. So, I'm not sure if that could be it?

Attached is the photo of his enclosure and lights. I use the Reptisun 10.0 HO UVB Bulb, and actually now I have the 75w basking bulb now. I also have 2 ceramic heaters that I can turn on and off if needed.
Ok so looking at your pics... How far down is the basking branch from the T5 lighting? It looks like it is quite a ways a way. If you have a distance of more then about 8 inches then this is one of the issues because the amount of UVB decreases quite a bit as you move farther away from the bulb. Also with the temp gauge sitting higher then the basking level do you have another gauge to tell you what your getting at basking level?

Why are you using the ceramic heaters? Does it get colder then 50 degrees at night? These are never used on chams during the day and very rarely used at night.

Only run the fogger into the cage from 1-5 am this will up his humidity level at night. 30-50% during the day is fine.

You will want to go ahead and add back in calcium with d3 two times a month. So I would just rotate this week over week with your multivitamin.

Since he is finishing a shed this could have been him simply stretching to separate the shed from his skin. Although it could be that the RI is back. I would monitor him. If he stops doing this once the shed is complete then you should be able to rule out the RI possibility.
 

salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
Well said beman!! Mine yawn when they reach mid morning warm temps of 80 from my night time 63 or if too hot to cool off
 

peridot

Member
Ok so looking at your pics... How far down is the basking branch from the T5 lighting? It looks like it is quite a ways a way. If you have a distance of more then about 8 inches then this is one of the issues because the amount of UVB decreases quite a bit as you move farther away from the bulb. Also with the temp gauge sitting higher then the basking level do you have another gauge to tell you what your getting at basking level?

Why are you using the ceramic heaters? Does it get colder then 50 degrees at night? These are never used on chams during the day and very rarely used at night.

Only run the fogger into the cage from 1-5 am this will up his humidity level at night. 30-50% during the day is fine.

You will want to go ahead and add back in calcium with d3 two times a month. So I would just rotate this week over week with your multivitamin.

Since he is finishing a shed this could have been him simply stretching to separate the shed from his skin. Although it could be that the RI is back. I would monitor him. If he stops doing this once the shed is complete then you should be able to rule out the RI possibility.

I have 3 temp gauges in there, and one of them is located right under the basking spot. After you posted this I went out and got another vine and made it so he could get closer to the T5 lighting.

So, I shouldn't run the fogger any during the day? Only at night?

I was using the ceramic heaters because the vet wanted me to keep him warmer while he was sick. It stays around 70 degrees in my house. It's ok to turn the ceramic heaters off? I was thinking I had read somewhere that he needed an area where it was around the 80s.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have 3 temp gauges in there, and one of them is located right under the basking spot. After you posted this I went out and got another vine and made it so he could get closer to the T5 lighting.

So, I shouldn't run the fogger any during the day? Only at night?

I was using the ceramic heaters because the vet wanted me to keep him warmer while he was sick. It stays around 70 degrees in my house. It's ok to turn the ceramic heaters off? I was thinking I had read somewhere that he needed an area where it was around the 80s.

So you want to be able to get an accurate temp reading at basking level. If you have wired thermometers with a probe this is an easy way to know exactly what you are getting by hooking the probe in on the basking branch. Or you can get a temp gun for about 15 bucks on amazon to get exact readings. You do not want the basking branch (highest branch to the lights) to be closer then 8 inches. This will give him the correct UVB for D3 conversion and keep him far enough away from the basking lamp so there is not a thermal burn risk.

Nope no fogger at all during the day. They actually should stay within the 30-50% max level during the day. Give this podcast a listen it is very good. https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/

Yes, turn the ceramics off and remove them from the enclosure. These are not needed. With temps for him. You want the one area at the top where it is 85-90 degrees depending on his age ( I do not know if you ever said how old he was). If he is 9 months or older he will be good with it being 90 degrees. Watch how he act though. I have a Veiled that hates it hotter then about 88. So if he is gaping under the heat light then he is too hot. We do this with the basking bulb. So if it is reading 87 at the branch then about 2 inches above where his body sits in the heat it will be the proper level. You should be fine with your 75 watt heat bulb. But if it is a spot basking bulb it will be more condensed focused heat so watch the heat level if you are using one of these. Then as he moves around on the top there will be areas away from the basking that are cooler. You want this. And as you move down in the cage it will get cooler.
 

salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
My daytime temp after 12:00 pm gets to 90 ambient temp with the bottom of the cage closer to the ground, so they can thermoregulate, my humidifier turns on at 11:00pm till 5:30 a.m. after my ambient temps have dropped. At 12:00 a.m my temps are at 63 - 65 they stay that way till 6:00 a.m. the next day
 

TheLetterAfterP(Q)

Avid Member
I'm getting a chameleon sometime in the next few months!! :)
However, unfortunately on a bulk purchase from LLLReptiles I purchased all the (small) Rep-Cal vitamins/calciums.

I was wondering just how superior the other products listed were?Should I return the products I have and purchase all the better vitamins, or could I use these first and then purchase the better ones for next time?
Thank you!
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm getting a chameleon sometime in the next few months!! :)
However, unfortunately on a bulk purchase from LLLReptiles I purchased all the (small) Rep-Cal vitamins/calciums.

I was wondering just how superior the other products listed were?Should I return the products I have and purchase all the better vitamins, or could I use these first and then purchase the better ones for next time?
Thank you!
So honestly you are going to get a different answer and recommendation on supplements from almost everyone. I happen to use all arcadia products. they have a different supplementation schedule and you have to provide the correct UVI level for UVB synthesis from light. The only way to do this is with a solarmeter 6.5. I know others that prefer repashy. some that like repcal. So the only thing about the repcal herptivite is that it does not have preformed vitamin A only beta carotene. It has been found that they have to have the preformed A. Arcadia does not have preformed A either. So most of us that use the supplements that do not have the preformed A will use 8000-10000 IU gelcaps of Preformed vitamin A (human consumption) You take a pin and poke a tiny hole and do one small drop of the A on a feeder and immediately feed 1 time a month. preferably something that your cham will take right out of your hand.
 
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