Weak and Eyes stay closed

[ChelseaFC]

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Male Sambava guessing around 9 months, had him since he was a baby, son of "El Lobo"
* Handling - Maybe once every two weeks, but also whenever i have to clean his cage
* Feeding - This may be bad but i have to store bought crickets to go from petsmart. I will switch back to my own gutload and feed them myself imediately
* Supplements - Calcium w/ D3 and Minerall Multi vitamin
* Watering - I see him drink and i spray around every 2-3 hours
* Fecal Description - Normal
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - screen, and 24x24x12
* Lighting - Usally from 9-9 and just a uav and uvb
* Temperature - floor around 70 and basking around 80-85
* Humidity - Around 35-50

* Plants - Umbrella Plant
* Placement -It was on a table above an air vent and right by a window, i just moved cause i figured the heat may have him dehydrated so now he is back in my room and away from stuff. Around 3 feet off the ground
* Location - Columbus Ga


Current Problem - He has been acting really lethargic lately and has not been moving and his eyes stayed closed even if i pick him up he will respond but with his eyes closed. He will open them when he is moving around which is seldom. But tonight when i came home he was at the bottom of the plant just sitting.

I took him out and held him and then moved his cage like stated above. I am going to start gut loading my own crickets and also use a feeding cup to keep track of his eating. Also should i buy a new uvb bulb? and should i expand his cage.


Any helps will be appreciated

 

[kpritch17]

Eyes closed and at the bottom of his cage is a very bad sign. You need to take him to an experienced chameleon vet asap!

Also, he should be in a 2x2x4ft cage by now. what is your supplement schedule, and are you using any calcium w/o D3? What brand is your UVB and is it coiled or linear?

You can do a search on this forum to find a good gutload.

 

[ChelseaFC]

Ok and he is still tiny though well not really tiny but probably around 10 inch . And no calcium w/o d3 i just ordered some the other day though.

The uvb is linear, ive heard they can run out. There is not a vet like that in Columbus, Ga that i know of but ill call around tomorrow and i dont have the funds untill my income taxes come in.

 

[trd1215]

I agree he needs to be in a taller cage... i am thinkin from my experience he needs vitamin A. Here is a post i got a while back when i had problems with my chameleons eyes and it helped me out.


Posted by The Chameleon Company:

"You are describing classic Vitamin A deficiency ...

.... a problem which has been confirmed by such as Dr. Gary Ferguson, Dr. Scott Stahl, Dr. Ivan Alfonso, and moi. Could be something else, but from what you describe, this is suspect number one. I think the substrate pursuit is an unlikely candidate. My notes on it:

Possible Vitamin A Deficiency in Chameleons, Symptoms and Solutions

By The Chameleon Company, LLC


Vitamin A deficiency is a common malady in LTC chameleons, either with WC or CB origins. This stems from the chameleons inability to synthesize real Vitamin A from common precursors, such as beta-carotene. This can be confusing when evaluating supplementations, as many dry supplements list Vitamin A benefits, but only as the precursor, beta-carotene, and not as “pre-formed”, “pro-formed”, or in essence, real Vitamin A.

While lack of Vitamin A effects many aspects of chameleon health, the usual first observed symptom is the appearance of an unexplained eye irritation, manifested in difficulties in keeping first one eye open, and after a few days, both eyes are affected. The eyes will not appear sunken, or in any other way mis-shaped initially, although secondary problems, such as an infection, can follow. The initial observation is that it is causing irritation to the chameleon, and that it can't keep the eye open as normal. It occurs more often in larger animals, but sometimes occurs in larger juveniles. Successfully hatched chameleons seem to be born with a supply of Vitamin A, an essential ingredient for successful embryonic development, and fresh WC’s seem to be imported with a supply. Mother Nature seems able to provide this vitamin without problem. Without some real vitamin A in their diet, these stores will deplete. It is a difficult vitamin for the hobbyist to gut-load via crickets and insects though, and such attempts are usually ineffective.

Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin, as is Vitamin E. It is most commonly sold in gel caps, with each gel cap containing approximately three drops of an oil solvent. It is available on-line from many suppliers, and is sold in most vitamin and health stores. The most common, and consensus most effective, form of vitamin A is a compound known as retinal palmitate. It is a common human food supplement as well. Depending on manufacturer, gel caps may contain 2000-15,000 iu’s (intravenous units) per gel cap. Read the label to insure you are buying a product with retinal palmitate as the Vitamin A. The solvent may be fish oil, which outside of its odor, is OK. While this product can be acquired on-line from several manufacturers, shipping may take a few days. If symptoms of possible vitamin A deficiency have been observed, it is best to purchase locally, at such as a GNC or other nutrition and vitamin store, as you can have it NOW, and then buy on-line to have a supply on hand for future use. Here’s an online source:

http://www.amazon.com/Carlson-Labora.../dp/B00014DUVG

Vitamin A is toxic in large quantities. As you are dealing with an oil, a strong word of caution as well. Chameleons have an extreme dislike for almost any measurable quantity of oil introduced into their mouth. While inexact, usually a negative reaction starts to become likely to occur if a quantity of oil ½ drop or greater is introduced into an adult chameleon’s mouth, and is virtually guaranteed with 2 or more drops. This can induce vomiting and inhalation of the oil, possibly death. Fortunately, the amount of oil (and vitamin A) needed to effectively dose a chameleon is usually less than 1/20th of a drop. Again, an inexact science, but depending upon the concentration of the Vitamin A in the oil, your goal is to deliver a dose that contains approximately 100 iu’s per 50g of chameleon. An exceedingly rough estimate would be 1/20th of a drop of the oil in an average adult female panther chameleon. There is a reasonable margin for error. This can be administered by puncturing one or more gel caps, and wetting a Q-tip with the oil, so that it is wet, but not dripping. You can then grab the chameleon behind the head, and when it says “Ahhhh”, touch the Q-tip to its inner gum, etc. It will likely chomp down, then let go of the Q-tip once released itself. Or, if you are able to hand-feed, swab the back of a cricket or such with a smear of the oil, and then coax your chameleon into eating it.

As a rule, we recommend this treatment to all adult chameleons once every two weeks. If an animal is showing symptoms of Vitamin A deficiency, such as eye closing with no other apparent malady, we recommend the dose daily for five days, then once every two weeks. In such cases where Vitamin A deficiency is the problem, the eyes usually improve on the third or fourth day. Good luck.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC
__________________
Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC"


Hope this helps you....good luck.

 

[kpritch17]

These are really bad signs, so he really needs to get to a vet asap.

As far as the supplements go..calcium w/o d3 should be used everyfeeding except for calcium w/ D3 2x per month and the multivitamin 2x per month. It is recommended that you change the linear UVB bulbs every year, some people change theirs every 6 months. It is impossible to tell how much UVB it is putting out without a UVB reader though. And 10 inches is not tiny-he needs to be in a 2x2x4 cage-I think lllreptile is still having a sale on them.

While you are looking for a vet (this is NOT a solution) try to give him a warm shower. It may make him perk up a bit.

 

[ChelseaFC]

a shower? just like spray him?

 

[pssh]

Put him on a plant, put the plant in the shower, aim the (luke warm) spray at the wall so that the mist will bounce off the wall onto him and the plant.

A chameleon that is at the bottom of the cage with it's eyes closed is usually a sign that it is very very ill or dying.

 

[kinyonga]

You said you use "Minerall Multi vitamin"....minerall is a mineral supplement not a vitamin supplement. Also, is it the one that has D3 in it?

You said..."above an air vent and right by a window"...you could be causing health issues with this setup if you are living in a cool area.

It was suggested to you before to take it to the vets and you didn't answer the questions I asked you in that thread IN DECEMBER.

 

[ChelseaFC]

DUDE CHILL OUT IM NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING ON HERE BUT IF YOU WANT TO I CAN DISCUSS WHY THE YOU HAVE TO BE A IN PM'S

and to answer your question he turned around like the next day and has been fine since.

Another thing im not sure if you have a job or know what college is since you have enough time to sit on the computer and go through old post and keep tabs on everyone what but it college is expensive and not everyone has the money to take there chameleon out of the city to a vet.

 

[pssh]

She's looking out for your chameleon. You bought it so you should have put aside extra money for emergencies, it's simple. Don't get mad at her because of your lack of planning.

 

[ChelseaFC]

i think sometimes the people on here forget that these things are pets. and sometimes stuff that pertains to things more important than a pet have to get put as first priority.

 

[Jakedn]

i think sometimes the people on here forget that these things are pets. and sometimes stuff that pertains to things more important than a pet have to get put as first priority.

From what you have described, nothing drastic changed in your life. Therefore, you should have known you didn't have the money beforehand.

Sometimes people are too impulsive and careless to do a bit of planning.

If you cannot or are unwilling to give him vet care or a proper set up, please give him to somebody who will.

 

[kpritch17]

I understand this can be really frustrating when you feel like people are attacking you or when you are giving advice and people don't seem to be taking it..but there is a sick chameleon and we need to try and help it.

I understand that you don't have enough money to go to the vet, but if you could find any way to get some money-even borrow some from friends and get it to the vet that would be the best option. Also, I have heard that since chameleons are not a very common pet, some veterinarians will look at them for free or a reduced price just for the experience. Try to find an experienced exotic vet though. Going to a vet that knows less about chameleons than you or anyone on here won't help. Call around and see what you can find.

Where do you live??

 

[ChelseaFC]

I live in columbus, georgia

And i called the emergency room vet last night and they were telling me about the temperature lol, like all he could say was reptiles were peculiar about temperature

 

[nateboston78]

I LOVE IT!! when I see posts like this on the forum. The magical cure that happens when people point out why your chameleon is ill. For it's sake I hope IT IS in fact "FINE."

DUDE CHILL OUT IM NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING ON HERE BUT IF YOU WANT TO I CAN DISCUSS WHY THE F*** YOU HAVE TO BE A D*** IN PM'S

and to answer your question he turned around like the next day and has been fine since.

Another thing im not sure if you have a job or know what college is since you have enough time to sit on the computer and go through old post and keep tabs on everyone what but it college is expensive and not everyone has the money to take there chameleon out of the city to a vet.

 

[kpritch17]

Try to contact the University of Georgia Vet School and see if there was any way you could bring your cham in for free so that they can help him and the vet students...

 

[Elizadolots]

i think sometimes the people on here forget that these things are pets. and sometimes stuff that pertains to things more important than a pet have to get put as first priority.

I agree. I know that this will cause hatred, but as I'm already hated, what the hey...

We live in an area that has been evacuated for fire reasons twice in the last 6 years...

In both evacuations, it was pretty easy: the kid and dogs go in the first car, the frog/bird (depending on the year) go in the second car.

Now we have the lizards. We know they are at the bottom of the "evacuation tree". They are currently sharing a big cage with a physical barrier between them (3/4 inch plywood)

If we had to evacuate tomorrow would the chameleons make the trip? Maybe not...they resist being removed from their environments and when one is looking out the window and seeing fire, there isn't a lot of time. We have a "transport plan" already worked out but if I can't get the animal in my hand fairly quickly, it's not getting transported.

I'm currently reworking their cages. I'm starting from scratch...they stay where they are until I'm happy with the enclosures I've created..and they will be separate...I want to be able to put their cages in the car, strap the shoulder straps around them and go.

But, the basic fact is, they are pets. They fall somewhat lower on the scale of "spend money on and work to save" than other humans in your family and than other pets which have a deeper connection with any children in the family.

 

[ChelseaFC]

UGA is like 3 hours away.
And now he wont eat i put him right in front of crickets and he just wont do anything.
He also is extremely thirsty and i can hold him in my hand and put him next to a leaf and he will drink untill the water is gone.

How can i hand feed him? if thats possible

 

[Leilaskeeper]

UGA is like 3 hours away.
And now he wont eat i put him right in front of crickets and he just wont do anything.
He also is extremely thirsty and i can hold him in my hand and put him next to a leaf and he will drink untill the water is gone.

How can i hand feed him? if thats possible

You just hold it in front of them .. pull your hand back so they can see the bug with both eyes. If he isn't positioning to shoot his tongue out, or isn't showing any interest in eating whatsoever, there might be something wrong.

Not all chams eat out of your hand though... it's tough.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

Try to contact the University of Georgia Vet School and see if there was any way you could bring your cham in for free so that they can help him and the vet students...

This is probably your best bet if you're not able to afford a vet at the moment. It's WORTH the 3 hour drive. At least, I think so... TRY!! You have to do something.