We have a new veiled chameleon and would like general advise please

PenelopeGarcia

New Member
First, thank you so much to anyone taking the time to read this! Here is our form!

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Penelope Garcia, is a veiled chameleon who is approximately 4 months old (grain of salt based on the fact that she came from Petsmart) She is suppose to be a female but I am not sure about that and she is approximately 4.5-5.5 inches long from tip of nose to start of tail

Handling - We just brought her home on Saturday, December 21, 2013 so we placed her in her habitat and I have made minor adjustments having to move her one time. She is not at all aggressive and yesterday we attempted to have her leave her branch for my hand but she didn't want to and we didn't force the issue as we are trying to help her through the adjustment phase.

Feeding - We tried to feed her for the first time on Sunday, by placing 10 crickets from Petsmart in her cage. At the end of the day before her light was due to go out, we removed all 10 crickets. On Monday, the same situation. On Tuesday, after reading details on this site (looking for assurance that her not eating was normal for a new chameleon in a new environment), I dusted her crickets with Calcium (no D3) and placed 10 crickets in her cage. They were gone by noon (placed inside at 7:00am), so we added 5 more and she ate those also. That was the first day we saw feces too, and according to the poop sticky, her poop is normal. Today we added 15 calcium dusted (no D3) and she ate those and around 2:00 this afternoon she was on the bottom of her enclosure (we had never seen her do this before) very dark green in color with almost a few blackish stripes. She was just prowling around. As she crawled back up, her color got lighter and she is perched up on a higher branch as I type. I added 5 more crickets under the theory she was looking for food. She had a normal poop today also. Tomorrow I plan on placing some blueberries and apples in her enclosure along with the crickets but am unsure how small to cut these pieces. About the crickets, we buy them at Petsmart and I put some orange cricket cubes in the cricket keeper and today, based on what I read I put in some squash and some blueberries along with those cubes. I have been reading the gut loading articles and will start to incorporate that into our cricket care. I do have some meal worms but based on what I have read, that is the McDonalds of food, but is it okay to offer that once a week so she does not get bored?

Supplements - Right now we only have Calcium and Calcium with D3 which we have not used yet but are planning on using on the 15th and last day of each month. Dusting her daily feed with just calcium and the brand is ExoTerra. Definitely could use additional guidance in this area of chameleon care.

Watering - We are using a zoo med misting system set for every 6 hours and spraying for 60 seconds. When this happens the humidity increase to around 50%. So I also hand mist three times a day and the humidity increases to 70% during that time, but the leaves do dry out and the humidity will dip in the mid 20s to low 30s in the hours following the "non" spray times. This is a huge concern for me as I think the air in our home is dry and I tried a cool mist vaporizer the first few days by the enclosure but it made zero difference, which is why I went to hand misting. (Morning, afternoon and before light goes out)

Fecal Description - as stated in the feeding sections, this seems normal

History - I made my daughter (she is 11) research for this chameleon since August before allowing her to make this purchase. We set up the habitat and made sure all systems were working before the chameleon was brought home. It was my desire to purchase one from a breeder but she saw one at Petsmart on Saturday and I let her get it since the habitat was already established

Cage Info:

Cage Type - She is in a Reptibreeze 18 X 18 X 36 screened cage

Lighting - we are using a ZooMed Combo Deep Dome light for her lighting. She has one infrared light that we use all the time for warmth (it is pretty cool in the room she is in) and we had to tinker with the bulb on that side for the first two days to get it right but she has a 50w bulb in and it stays on all the time. It does have a deep purple glow at night....does this bother the sleep cycle??? It does not seem too, she sleeps the whole time, (I have been quietly checking on her the first few night). The second light is a ZooMed Repti-Sun UVB 5.0 Mini Compact Florescent. This is on a timer and comes on at 6:15 AM (our sun up) and goes off at 6:15 PM. The room she is in also has 4 very large windows and the room gets a ton of light.

Temperature - Middle of cage temp is around 72 with the top 1/4 staying at 74-76 and her basking spot is at 88. The bottom of the cage is around 68. At night, I do take a small metal lid and prop up the infrared side of the lamp about an inch and it cools down the temps about four degrees at the middle and top but the bottom is consistent as it is the room temperature. I am measuring those temperatures with two digital thermometers that is mounting 6 inches below the lamp (it is on the basking spot branch) and one about 10 inches below that. I moved the thermometers around the first few days until I was getting consistent readings.

Humidity - This is where we are struggling. The humidity with the auto misters grows to 50% around the time of misting, the leaves dry and the humidity drops to the 20-30s. So I started to hand mist also and this creates and even greater increase, but it is not permanent. She does not care for the hand misting and tries to hide...lol. I have the misting system nozzle about 6 inches below the top of the cage (opposite her basking spot) and direct it down so it does not go outside the enclosure. Is this fluctuation ok or should I cut panels of shower curtain on 3 sides to keep is moister all the time?

Plants - I have 4 pots of live plants in the bottom of the enclosure. I am embarrassed to say I do not know what kind they are but I did buy them from Petsmart and the girl there (who I have been discovering as we correct mistakes may not be as knowledgeable as I thought she was) said to just make sure they said "subaquatic" I am 100% open to replacing all of these, they are in clay pots and they are planted in coconut fiber but placed smaller rocks on the top so she would not get any in her mouth. I have two long twisty vines that are also covered with artificial vines and I gave her two really good hiding places and her basking spot is shielded also so she is not exposed when there. I do not use anything on the bottom other than a single layer of paper towels, which stay wet all the time.

Placement - The cage is not in a high traffic area (a loft of an upstairs but on a wall that she can't see people go up and down the stairs) It is not under a vent and the top of the cage is about 6 feet from the ground as it sits on a 3 foot tall cabinet. There are 4 large windows in that room and I open the blinds during the day for warmth and sunlight and the window have tree view only. (like being in a tree house) We live in Austin, Texas. Everyone wants to watch her, but in an attempt to get her to eat we have had a "no viewing" policy in place the last few days and that seems to have worked

Current Problem - We don't have any direct problems, but just a few "not sure if this is right" issues that we are trying to work out before we do have a problem. I am also at a loss about the egg laying thing and when I should expect that and what I should offer her to make her happy during that time.
 
First welcome to the forums, you have come to the right place to learn about chameleon care. It is a great community full of knowledgeable and caring keepers who are dedicated to improving the lives of captive chameleons. You certainly sound like you did your homework and I like that you have involved your daughter in the research and care of the animal. You have also learned the pet stores are ironically the least reliable source of information. You will find that as many keepers are here equal many different opinions of the best supplements to use. But all have the common thread of calcium with no D3 daily and calcium with D3 twice a month. You will also need to add a multivitamin given twice a month as well. Your lighting schedule is good but you need to turn off all the lights at night, they need complete darkness to get the proper rest. Unless your house drops below 50 to 60 degrees at night you should be fine. My first chameleon Pete, I kept the red light on all the time and he was OK for a while but then started wandering around the cage when the lights were out, once I turned off all the lights he stopped doing this. You can use a standard white household bulb for heat, you don't need to buy the expensive heat lamps from the pet store. You will have to experiment as far as wattage to get the right amount of heat. After January 1st, they are discontinuing incandescent bulbs so I bought some Halogen bulbs that look just like a regular bulb and they work fine. Some folks use halogen spots or floods but they were too hot for my situation.
Veileds are more tolerant of low humidity than most chameleons. In order to increase your humiditiy you can increase the spray time/frequency, add a dripper and of course live plants. Since you don't know what type of plants you have you can post some pictures of them and see if anyone can ID them for you. Also post some pics of your cham and set up. If you take a picture of the back feet we can ID the sex of the cham. Males have a little tarsal spur that is present from birth so they are easy to sex. If you have a female you will need to look into providing a laying bin in the future as female chams like chickens, don't need a male to lay eggs. But back to humidity. Some folks put a shower curtain around three sides of the cage, some put up plexiglass sides. I used shrink window film insulation. With trying to up the humidity you also need to be concerned with drainage so water does not sit in the bottom of the cage. That can be simple or elaborate. I just drilled holes in the bottom and have a basin to catch the overflow. I use a mist system and a dripper so there is water available all the time for my boys to drink.
You will find a lot of information about feeders and gutloading here. The orange cubes are not very nutritious as you have seen. Sandrachameleon is the resident gutload guru and has several links and a blog to help with that. Pigglett79 has blogs about raising hornworms and silkworms for feeding. Many of the site sponsers have a great variety of feeder insects. I have in addition to crickets, dubia roaches, turkistan roaches, phoenix worms, horn worms, silk worms, and silkworm moths. I just had several moths hatch and mate and lay eggs! I fed the moths off after the eggs. I am going to try hornworms in the spring. The biggest issue folks seem to have is shipping costs as they are sending live animals through the mail and even though it seems pricey it is actually cheaper in the long run as they are healthier bugs and have less die off. I use Ghann's cricket farm for crickets, Coastal Silkworms and Great Lakes Hornworms and just order eggs, I get my phoenix worms from rainbowmealworms on ebay and silkworm chow from ebay. The hornworm egg pods come with chow in them but I am experimenting with a recipe to make my own hornworm chow! I also started feeding my phoenix worms, fruit and soft veggies and they have grown quite huge.
Well it is a lot to take in but well worth it in terms of a healthy animal. Your little one sounds like she is settling in just fine. So again welcome and please post pics!
 
She is sleeping now and I am about to go upstairs and turn off that infrared bulb, her UV bulb went off 15 minutes ago and she is literally like a light switch when that happens. She freezes in position, eyes shut, it is super interesting to me. There is a bit of indirect light in our home in the evening and since she is in the loft do you think I should cover her with a dark cloth on the one side that she could see light? It is no darker than what I would equate moonlight to be based on her position in the loft. I will definitely look into all the feed sites you recommended. I do want her diet to be as healthy as possible.

As far as the drainage issue, I will get my husband to build something for that straight away. Can I replace that plastic bottom with a screen and just set the cage on a custom built base that has a plastic liner to hold that excess water? I would just wipe it out every day. If I do that, how to keep the bottom screen sanitary? Or is it just better to drill holes in the white plastic bottom and set it up on a plastic tub/basin?

I will post some pictures of her and her habitat tomorrow. Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions. My first goal is to not kill her and my second goal is to have the healthiest pet I can :)

What is the coolest the room temperature can be without having to provide any additional heating for her at night time? (I am running on the assumption that her thermometer will read close to what our upstairs thermostat would read.)
 
Congratulations on your new Cham and welcome to the forums.
I cover my enclosures at night.

I have two 2 x 2 x 4 cages side by side (with a visual barrier). I bought a dark colored tablecloth from Target and I cover the fronts of my cages with that at night. I think it is a 56" one. The width is perfect for the hight of the enclosures. It was under $20 I think it was a Thanksgiving clearance one. I was using a bed sheet but them decided I wanted those sheets back on my bed LOL. I have a waterproof shower curtain around the backs to aid in keeping humidity up and water off my walls.

I don't cover the top of the cages and they are in my dining room, my boys get ready for bed as I start to dim lights around them. by the time their main lights go off and I cover the enclosures they are tucked into their sleeping places with eyes closed. I like to let it start to darken so they can settle into their places when they still have light.

For drainage I drilled a 2.5" diameter hole in the bottom of the PVC trays I got with my enclosures, then I drilled the same size holes in the Children's activity table I bought to hold my enclosures. I put a shower drain in that, but then covered the holes with fiberglass screening that is used for gutters, comes in a 100' roll. (I use it for a million things). I have 2 5 gallon paint buckets underneath and I empty them every few days. I clean all of the leaves, poop and excess bugs out by hand or with a little shop vac I bought. I do wear gloves and wash out the bottom of the enclosure with hot, hot water and then Hydrogen Peroxide on cotton rags. I really flood the bottom of the enclosures to clean them, and then vac up the excess water. I have the pans that have 2" sides not the flat pvc that comes with the reptibreeze.

2 things I could not do without for my chams:

- Hot Glue Gun
- Fiberglass screen roll

One thing I have learned is that you if you can imagine it you can do it. There are not near as many things on the market for caring and keeping of chameleons, so be ready for lots of Do It Yourself projects. Actually thats half the fun!!

And finally.....LOVE THE NAME!!
 
My daughters name is Penelope :) she is my posh penny, hence my name lol.

Sub aquatic plants?! Whaaaa? Find out the plants, make sure she can't eat the rocks, I use golf ball size garden rocks. You can grab plants from Home Depot this time year, they put them up front inside usually. Jade, weeping fig, pathos, hens and chicks, hibiscus, red bamboo, are all sold at mine and are on the approved plant list. Pick up the rocks and organic soil while you're there, replant, rinse rinse rinse and voila!

Veiled's will eat your plants. Know what she is eating or has access too. Frita ate her poor weeping fig down to the twigs practically.

Ps. I won't even talk to the pet smart people anymore. Jannb and olimpias blog and Sandra's for feeders are all I follow and these guys on here for advise. The pet smart crew are horrible. Their poor chams are literally jumping out of the enclosures they keep them in, because the conditions are horrid.
 
I have attached the photos that have been requested. The first one is the general overview of the enclosure, the second the basking area and vine/coverage areas. The third, the live plants I don't know the names of..lol. Need to know if they are safe. I removed the smaller rocks this morning and will find larger one (daughter is doing that right now). Fourth is a photo of the back foot for sex identification. The last is a general photo of Penelope and referenced for general health.

Thank you all for your help.:)
 

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The far back one is a Dracaena variegatu, it's safe but from what I read when bigger chams grab them they break the leaf off causing the plant to die in no time. I think the far back left is a cut off a pathos. The front one looks like its used mainly for fish tanks hence it being subaquatic literally meaning under water. I don't know about this one. The front one I think is safe too, I can't think of the name.

Let me get out my plants i.d book and I'll try to name it.
 
I think the front right is a dracena fragrans. Both the fragrans and varigatus can be used as an aquarium plant or a terrestrial plant. The back left is a pothos. The front left, I can't see enough to tell. It could be a parlor palm or ponytail palm. I think they are all safe. Your enclosure looks really nice and well done.
 
My chameleon care has expanded in ways I never dreamed. The assortment of bugs that reside at my house and in my fridge makes me shake my head sometimes! And the bugs and lizards eat better than I do.
 
Lol ridge yeah the bugs do!! Iv only been a member here a few months but I'm already breeding crickets, dubias, snails and mealies. AND making my own drip systems thanks to you ;)
 
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