WATERFALL why not and why do?

jurjenfromholland

New Member
okay so if readed allot of stuff loads negative
some postive about getting a waterfall for chameleons
now if tryed everything and trust me i did..
from spraying with hot and cold water hand spraying gently on the nose
till shower and dripper... my chameleon.. HATES being sprayed...
only when he is basking all day.. he likes it.. just for 20 secs then sprints..
now i was thinking bout getting a waterfall for the looks but for drinking to
it looks nice and yes i filter it right and clean the water every day
with a in-line-gasoline-filter-23586-244539.jpg
and im getting a sort of waterfall like this Rock-Waterfall-Fountain-YX-F08-.jpg
i got a big terrarium so loads of space for it with some extra filtration
the finest aqaurium filter spons to..
now is there anyone.. in a postive way that has a waterfall to or some like that
with good results with their chameleons that drinking from it..??
meins is a veiled one from 2.5 years old thx already!
 

Yak

New Member
hello
I wonder if you may share some of the POSITIVE you've read, as I would be interested...

My panthers tend to poo on standing water for some reason.... and my Jacksons do go to standing water to drink if available.
 

Kate

Established Member
Before my panther I had two separate veileds and they both drank out of a waterfall. It was great to see but I didn't realise the bacteria problem so now I don't use them as I am not at home 24/7 to check on it. Feeders regularly drowned in it and the chams regularly pooped in it. It was an absolute pain to clean out and the pump regularly packed in. Unless you can guarantee that it is scrupulously clean all the time I wouldn't bother.:D
 

Mike Fisher

Established Member
There are a lot more cons than pros.

It's tough to do correctly, although it could be done. You'd need a filter that could filter out pathogens which would be a lot of infrastructure and expense. Worth it if you have a large room vivarium, not so much for just a cage or two. The fuel type filter shown won't do the job. For the most part, they are not recommended due to the infrastructure, expense, and upkeep that exceeds most keepers expertise.

It would be really easy to mess up which puts your animals at risk for disease.
 

pigglett79

Avid Member
In addition to the above comments, I would add that with a waterfall of that size, there are large pools of water and you do occasionally hear stories of chameleons drowning. If it were a large adult ptobably not as much of an issue.

I tried a waterfall with my frogs and even after one day it was dirty and starting to smell, indicating that it was already contaminated.
 

jurjenfromholland

New Member
everyone knows the bad side ...
like i written down.. i wanna hear some good solution the fix
the problem .. ;) and this is what i came up with ...
i know waterfall isnt the best but if it works it works...
he never drinks.. i know that.. ;) bye now..
so i need to get a good filtration and a water clean up every
day isnt a problem realy.. i mean if the water is running ... and it isnt in a
good position for pooping into it..
i mean a chameleon .. mine one does **** all over the place ...
so that problem is the only one i see atm and even that can be fixed to clean it more then 3 times a week .. i only want my man to drink ;) and be healthy
 

Sabbi

New Member
My chameleon loves her waterfall and I have seen her drink from it may times. It must be cleaned out everyday though.

Positives - looks nice,

can easily add supplements to water if needed e.g. calcium & d3 and possibly critical care if it doesn't filter that out (my chameleon fell very ill as I got her with mild MBD from a bad breeder and this helped a lot when she was able to get her own water if she was being stubborn).

She also prefers this a lot more from spraying etc. as she has her little spot she likes to drink in.

disadvantages - a pain to clean, Its impractical to clean fully in little areas corners etc. if you do not have the time will take forever and maybe need an old toothbrush to do it, you have to be very careful of this especially as it has cable attached. Make sure you clean filter sponge too!

However I'm very happy with mine I would rather have this and know she is drinking especially when I am away on holiday or with work and someone has to look after her.

I turn mine off at night as she wont use it when she's asleep anyway and it does make noise, plus will save electricity. However yours may be a better quality as mine was bought as a quick fix.

also, mine never looks dirty smells or anything, my chameleon does not ever poo in it , she does not drown in it obviously even when she was critically ill she has no problem with it , you must have a deep waterfall for that or put too much water in. Just depends on quality of waterfall, how safe, and quality of your cleaning.
 

jurjenfromholland

New Member
finnaly something positive!!!
i like to hear that .. for me its a finnal option
to try out if litterly tryed everything...
so im gonna ttry to buy a waterfall that has some
black filter for the some bigger dirt and will ad a fine filter in the bottom
and il do some water clean ups it all be fine...
im gonna try it out to see how he reacts
if not i can always place it in the garden
haha
 

juice28

New Member
ive wondered the same thing myself.. my veileds are super stubborn with drinking,, dripper misting fogger.. and ive seen the male drink once and that was when i got him...havent seen him do it since.. i saw a viv posted on here(dont remember where though) but it had a build in waterfall into.. good movement and it flowed from the mid top to the bottom adnd across im guess into some sort of container with a filter and a return pump..it looked like a mini fall and stream going partially across the bottom..it was really cool looking and i didt read one post as to that being a bad set up..
 

Solid Snake

Avid Member
My chameleon loves her waterfall and I have seen her drink from it may times. It must be cleaned out everyday though.

Positives - looks nice,

can easily add supplements to water if needed e.g. calcium & d3 and possibly critical care if it doesn't filter that out (my chameleon fell very ill as I got her with mild MBD from a bad breeder and this helped a lot when she was able to get her own water if she was being stubborn).

She also prefers this a lot more from spraying etc. as she has her little spot she likes to drink in.

disadvantages - a pain to clean, Its impractical to clean fully in little areas corners etc. if you do not have the time will take forever and maybe need an old toothbrush to do it, you have to be very careful of this especially as it has cable attached. Make sure you clean filter sponge too!

However I'm very happy with mine I would rather have this and know she is drinking especially when I am away on holiday or with work and someone has to look after her.

I turn mine off at night as she wont use it when she's asleep anyway and it does make noise, plus will save electricity. However yours may be a better quality as mine was bought as a quick fix.

also, mine never looks dirty smells or anything, my chameleon does not ever poo in it , she does not drown in it obviously even when she was critically ill she has no problem with it , you must have a deep waterfall for that or put too much water in. Just depends on quality of waterfall, how safe, and quality of your cleaning.
BBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not good!

Never add supplements into a water source! You cant determine how much supplement the animal is getting, and with calcium, they largely need a certain amount that is dertermined by how much food they are intaking. So putting it on the food is a much better idea.

Jurjen, the chameleon may seem to "not like" being sprayed, but they need it still. They do tend to stop what they are doing, and prepare for the rain when it starts, this doesnt mean that they dont like it.

Chameleons like to be rained on, and they like it alot. They like it so much that they wont drink until 10+ min into the misting session sometimes. So spray them until after they are done drinking, even if that takes 30+ min.

Jurjen, we zijn vrienden, luister alsjeblieft. Gebruik niet een waterval, maar mist de kameleon.
 

Saldarya

Established Member
The issue you will have from a filtering perspective is not the physical 'dirt', which you will be able to filter out with various sponges and what not, but the pathogens (bacteria) for which flowing, warm, water is the perfect environment to grow.

So, how to do so. To start, at minimum, you would need a UV sterilizer and even that will not address bacteria that is not free floating.

You refer to the aquarium industry as an example of filtering water, however, in aquariums, reducing bacteria is not the goal, in fact, you want the bacteria!!

The fact is, it will be very difficult to achieve. Not impossible, but difficult. And the fact that you have received numerous reasons not to do so, and one that says they have been successful is all you need to go forward.

So, since you are going to do so, please keep us informed as to what all you do end up doing and your level of success.

Thanks,
 

juice28

New Member
maybe my veiled's are...."special" well call it that because ive misted them directly before and they practically hurt themselves trying to get out of the way of the water..i kept on spraying the cage thinking that... well itll will trigger a response and all they did was puff up and go to their dry spots until i was done. I actually used the entire spray bottle once just to see if it was a timing thing and sprayed them for close to 20 minutes and they ran and hid the entire time and did not drink any of it...actually didnt come out from their..hiding places for about 20 minutes after i was done.

my female who NEVER willingly comes to me will actually run across the side of her cage to me and crawl up my arm to get out the water thats the only way she has willingly walked onto my hand...i tried it with the cage door shut and she panicked so bad that she almost hurt herself and just ran around the entire cage literally top to bottom the entire time so she wouldnt get wet and she was so stressed she went to one corner in the top directly under her basking light upside down on the cage ceiling and stayed there for almost a day and didnt eat so i dont do that anymore .her poops looks good so shes getting it from somewhere...
 

Sabbi

New Member
BBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not good!

Never add supplements into a water source! You cant determine how much supplement the animal is getting, and with calcium, they largely need a certain amount that is dertermined by how much food they are intaking. So putting it on the food is a much better idea.

Jurjen, the chameleon may seem to "not like" being sprayed, but they need it still. They do tend to stop what they are doing, and prepare for the rain when it starts, this doesnt mean that they dont like it.

Chameleons like to be rained on, and they like it alot. They like it so much that they wont drink until 10+ min into the misting session sometimes. So spray them until after they are done drinking, even if that takes 30+ min.

Jurjen, we zijn vrienden, luister alsjeblieft. Gebruik niet een waterval, maar mist de kameleon.

Actually I can as she was critically ill adding it to food was definitely not an option if she does not eat it she simply will not get it she was practically on deaths door so it is better than nothing. This was also approved of by a specialist vet that has worked with exotics in a zoo who gave me correct measurements for my chameleon gender and weight it was mainly through a syringe but in water as well for the times she rejected syringe... its perfectly fine for my chameleon as she has now found the ability to eat again because of it after not eating for 1 month and almost 1 week. I didn't say to do it everyday when they are in perfect health I said it is there if things are critical like mine was.
 

Solid Snake

Avid Member
Actually I can as she was critically ill adding it to food was definitely not an option if she does not eat it she simply will not get it she was practically on deaths door so it is better than nothing. This was also approved of by a specialist vet that has worked with exotics in a zoo who gave me correct measurements for my chameleon gender and weight it was mainly through a syringe but in water as well for the times she rejected syringe... its perfectly fine for my chameleon as she has now found the ability to eat again because of it after not eating for 1 month and almost 1 week. I didn't say to do it everyday when they are in perfect health I said it is there if things are critical like mine was.
Even if the chameleon has MBD, and needs calcium, they dont need as much calcium as you can possibly get into them.

A measured dose, of liquid calcium is fine.

Adding supps into drinking water is a bad practice, so actually, you should not have done that, and you shouldnt be leading others to believe that they should either.

It just doesnt make since.

That would be like covering every bit of foliage with calcium, and letting/hoping they will eat it, and in the right amount.

The amount of calcium your chameleon needs is directly proportional to the amount of potassium they intake, basically.

For PROPER calcium absorption, you need a Cal:phos ratio of 2:1. Most feeders are going to provide a ratio of 1:2. That is why we add calcium supplements to the feeders, to balance the nutritional value, for proper absorption. Without balance, you dont get the right absorption, and you are defeating the purpose.

Im just trying to help here, but I have to say, you are mistaken. :eek:
 

Mike Fisher

Established Member
..sprayed them for close to 20 minutes and they ran and hid the entire time and did not drink any of it...actually didnt come out from their..hiding places for about 20 minutes after i was done. .her poops looks good so shes getting it from somewhere...
If you haven't been misting them, what method do you use to provide them with water? It is not mentioned anywhere in your post.
 

Mike Fisher

Established Member
so that problem is the only one i see atm and even that can be fixed to clean it more then 3 times a week ..
More like twice daily and if he poops in it and drinks out of it in between cleanings, it may increase his protozoa load, possibly causing a trip to the vet.

No experienced breeder I know would ever use one unless it was hooked up to about 10K worth of filtering equipment. Even then it would be a challenge. If you are serious about it, research what they do for large zoo vivariums when they incorporate a waterfall and duplicate that on a smaller scale.

Or just put it in there a few times daily, watch him drink, and then take it out immediately.:p
 

hotwheels

New Member
Aquaponics/waterfalls & chameleons

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and I don't normally go on them in general. This one caught my interest on the waterfalls and terrariums. I have been a hydroponic gardener for years and I worked for a large hydroponics company and taught a lot of people how to garden. I have a large established terrarium with Aquaponics waterfall and tropical garden. I used a 4x4x14 hydroponics flood table (ebb & flo) and built the water fall in the table with over flow drains that run through all the plants roots to feed the plants and filter the water. There is no soil the trees and plants live in growstones a hydroponic media. The table has a small pond/fish area. the gold fish help with the nitrogen cycle and they eat stray crickets. The table drains into a 14 gallon tank with final carbon and uv sterilizer to kill anything and keep the water crystal clear. I use a 400 watt hortilux blue spectrum metal halide grow light with digital ballast to keep everything happy. I will post photos but the key to it working is letting the system come to life first, the plants have to become established with good root systems.
 

Mike Fisher

Established Member
Hi all,

I have been a hydroponic gardener for years and I worked for a large hydroponics company and taught a lot of people how to garden.
You are probably qualified enough to build a setup that didn't endanger your chameleons health.:D Like you mentioned though, a lot of equipment and infrastructure, and know-how involved. If done right, it would be really cool no doubt about it. I'd love to do a setup like that in a greenhouse vivarium with free range chameleons. Parsons all the way!:cool:
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
No, no, no, and go ahead and put another NO with it! Are you guys serious? Do you think our local water supply is not heavily subjected to chemicals before seeing our tap? Now that we have "filtration" out of the way..Lets go to well water. Do you honestly think you can memic a supply of fresh water "like rain" that will filter through atleast 10 feet of soil? BUT WAIT A SECOND!!! How about instead of letting that 10 feet of earth filter out nice clean rain water. Lets piss and crap all in it and then pour it over this earth and then drink it!! Sounds good right? You guys are effin crazy thinking sponges and earth and roots and uv filters will filter contaminates like piss or crap out and make it safe to drink. We cant even put quantity or mass of water into this equation cause its probably a gallon max...

The hydroponics guy in the above post's is not even on this level or even close to waste water management for human drinking use. Crystal clear water...very nice but go drink it days on end and come let us know how that worked out for ya ;) I can achieve crystal clear water with life in it also with nylon webbed packing strap. I have done indoor pond set ups, very easy to keep crystal clear water but you are out of your mind if you think ill drink it.

Before subjecting a animal that did not choose to be in your care to your dumb *** idea. Take a drink from this water just before your clean it daily and come back with the results.
 

Mike Fisher

Established Member
The hydroponics guy in the above post's is not even on this level or even close to waste water management for human drinking use. Crystal clear water...very nice but go drink it days on end and come let us know how that worked out for ya ;) I can achieve crystal clear water with life in it also with nylon webbed packing strap. I have done indoor pond set ups, very easy to keep crystal clear water but you are out of your mind if you think ill drink it.
Agreed, my support for the person that posted this was not that it would work to water a chameleon, but since he had some experience with building stuff, he might be qualified to come up with a system that would work without endangering his chameleons health. I also have a koi pond, and no way I'd drink the water out of it.:eek:

Regardless of whatever system a person could come up with, it would need constant monitoring/testing, just as if they were drinking the water themselves. Not a typical DIY project for sure.

There was a series called "The Colony" where they built a DIY filtration system and drank water from the Los Angeles river.....brave souls...........
 
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