Warning: Do not feed too many superworms to your cham!!!

[joneill]

I am posting this after the loss of my beautiful veiled chameleon. He was 2 years old and I had to euthanase him when his liver failed and he collapsed. This was all caused by me feeding him mainly superworms. Obviously, it is acceptable to feed these worms but only as a treat, once or twice a week. Their staple diet should consist of crickets, roaches and grasshoppers. I live in Durban, South Africa and we don't get a wide variety of feeder insects here. When my chameleon lost interest in crickets, I offered him superworms and he loved them, so that is what I fed him. Not knowing that they would cause his death some months later.

Basically what happened is that all the chitin in the shells of the worms caused an ulcer in his small intestine as it is very hard to digest and a chameleons gut is paper thin. Then he stopped eating as he was obviously umcomfortable. I took him to the vet and gave him meds for 4 days but he still didn't improve or want to eat. When I took him in the vet again, they tube fed him and injected fluids under his skin to improve hydration but a few hours later he collapsed and stopped breathing. They manually respirated him for an hour and a half but he failed to respond so I made the decision to end his suffering. An autopsy revealed that his liver had failed due to lipidosis which happened over the course of two weeks as a result of him suddenly stopping eating.

I feel like a murderer and loved him so much. And to think this could have all been avoided if only I had known...

Please could we make all members aware of this, maybe even a sticky, as it could prevent so many problems and heartache from happening. I wish more than anything that I had read about this when I first acquired a chameleon.

 

[carol5208]

I am so sorry for your loss. So you fed him supers and ONLY supers then? You shouldn't feel like a murderer. That is ridiculous. I am still kinda skeptical about his liver being destroyed by superworms....What were you supplementing with??? Were his intestines full of undigested chitin???

 

[sandrachameleon]

Very sorry for your loss.

I fully believe a varied diet is absolutely best - that NO one feeder should form more than half the chameleons diet. And supers are not an ideal food choice (I suggest limiting to 20% of the diet).

However, I have to wonder if perhaps the superworm diet was NOT entirely responsible for the death. There are several people on this forum that have used superworms exclusively (for a variety of reasons) for years without causing death, and indeed in many cases without causing any apparent harm at all. Perhaps they gutload differently, provide more water, feed less overal - hard to know.

joneill, you did not purposefully cause the death - you are not a murderer. I know you feel somewhat responsible. But you obviously cared about the animal and did not intend this to happen.

If you get another chameleon, you might consider adding termites (which I noticed were quite plentiful when I was in SA) as a part of what you offer.

 

[SUSE]

I am sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing. I will limit my Cham's Worm habit.

 

[DekuScrub]

oh god now im scared.

ive been alternating crix and supers with my jacksons for the past couple months. ive never used supers more frequently in a diet than now with my jacksons. it will be around, hmm, 6 supers and around 12 crickets a week. or 1-2 supers 3 days a weeks and 6 crickets (small) 2 days a week.

i planned on getting some lobsters once it warms up enough for me to keep them outdoors (apparently people in my house are disgusted by roaches, i think lobsters are cute)

i agree with carol, its still a bit hard for me to believe ulceration from the chitin in the supers was the sole culprit in your chams liver failure. could he have had any other health issus? if only mild i could see something as simple as dehydration really exacerbating such and issue.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Very sorry for your loss.

To clarify, hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver syndrome) starts with an animal becoming fat basically. Excessive fat in the diet leads to fat storage, a lot of which is in the liver. This can be a chronic problem that in itself may (kills lionfish all the time by itself) or may not cause problems. The biggest danger lies in an animal with too much fat that suddenly stops eating. When that happens the body tries to compensate by mobilizing those stores of fat in the body to use instead of food. The liver is what transforms fat into useful materials the body can use for energy so all that fat rushes to the liver. The sudden rush of fat basically clogs up the liver and prevents it from doing all its other very important jobs. The liver will actually float if you drop it in water because of all the fat in it, and it looks yellow instead of the normal pink/tan. This can cause liver failure quite quickly. This is actually very common in cats. A fat cat that doesn't eat for even two days can be severely affected by hepatic lipidosis and it becomes a medical emergency. With a primary diet of superworms that may have caused too much fat buildup that led to catastrophe when he stopped eating suddenly. I just wanted to help in understanding.

 

[carol5208]

Very sorry for your loss.

To clarify, hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver syndrome) starts with an animal becoming fat basically. Excessive fat in the diet leads to fat storage, a lot of which is in the liver. This can be a chronic problem that in itself may (kills lionfish all the time by itself) or may not cause problems. The biggest danger lies in an animal with too much fat that suddenly stops eating. When that happens the body tries to compensate by mobilizing those stores of fat in the body to use instead of food. The liver is what transforms fat into useful materials the body can use for energy so all that fat rushes to the liver. The sudden rush of fat basically clogs up the liver and prevents it from doing all its other very important jobs. The liver will actually float if you drop it in water because of all the fat in it, and it looks yellow instead of the normal pink/tan. This can cause liver failure quite quickly. This is actually very common in cats. A fat cat that doesn't eat for even two days can be severely affected by hepatic lipidosis and it becomes a medical emergency. With a primary diet of superworms that may have caused too much fat buildup that led to catastrophe when he stopped eating suddenly. I just wanted to help in understanding.

thank you for that explanation. I know supers are fatty and that makes sense.

 

[ataraxia]

Do i need to comment?

 

[djfishygillz]

I am sorry for your loss. You really must of loved that chammy

Also if you don't mind me asking how much the vet charged you? It sounds like all together it had to of been at least a grand... Sorry I am a college student so that much money spent to me is a bit breath taking.

 

[chamlover98]

Whelp I shall continue feeding crickets and mantis

 

[drcrossfire]

Sorry for your loss.

And thanks ferret for the wonderful explanation

 

[joneill]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I am still mourning and cry everytime I talk about it.

Tinyferretinmyshoes - that was an excellent explanation and exactly what the vet told me altho I couldn't recall it as clearly. So, as I understand it now, the supers caused my cham to be fat and also the chitin in their shells irritated the lining of his small intestine which created an ulcer and this in turn led him to stop eating which then resulted in the very dangerous hepatic lipidosis.

I honestly feel that I have a responsibility to warn every cham owner out there. I would not want anyone to go through what I am going through at the moment! Can anyone suggest how I could broadcast a message about this and the possible dangers of feeding your cham a diet consisting primarily of supers or mealies?

 

[joneill]

I am sorry for your loss. You really must of loved that chammy

Also if you don't mind me asking how much the vet charged you? It sounds like all together it had to of been at least a grand... Sorry I am a college student so that much money spent to me is a bit breath taking.

Obviously the cost was not an issue and never is with my pets. The way I see it is they are under my care and I have to provide for them and take care of them, no matter what the cost! That is a golden rule of being a pet owner. It was more than a grand but the vet was kind enough not to charge me for everything since my cham ended up dying and he could see how clearly devastated I was.

Damn, I miss my cham so much already and its only been 3 days. He was such a beautiful specimen and I would give anything to have him back.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

This is the best place to spread the word! This is the only united place for chameleon keepers to spread ideas and offer advice so I'm certain many people have already learned from your unfortunate experience. And ataraxia (another forum member) is doing his part to spread that same message too. He's been warning people of the danger of too many supers for many months.

Again I am so sorry for your loss. It is so hard to lose these little guys. They're so easy to just fall in love with.

 

[lilbug]

superworms

I don't see how super worms killed your chameleon. My veiled has been eating mealworms and now super worms for her whole life. She has always refused to eat anything else. When I put crickets in her cages she hisses at them but does not eat them. She also won't eat any other worms, I have tried everything available to me to feed her and they all just end up dying. The only other thing she eats is plants and veggies. My veiled is not fat she is very healthy so I would say there is probably more to why your chameleon died then its diet.

 

[absolutbill]

I'm so sorry for your loss, but I agree with the others, you are not a murderer. The one thing you should take away from this is that you learned, AND you are passing the knowledge on so that others may learn as well. You took your cham to the vet instead of ignoring the situation, and for that you should be commended. Losing a pet hurts, and they will always be in your heart, but if through this thread you help another keeper and another cham, then you have done your part in furthering our knowledge of these beautiful creatures.

Michelle

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I don't tend to wade into things on the forums much. I "ghost" around more than anything. However I've come to like the site over the years.


1 - sorry for your loss.

2 - It's not your fault

3- I've had chams that for the majority of their lives eat mostly supers. I never had one croak due to them and yes the vast majority of my chams or animals in general get a necro done one them if they die.

One thing I have seen with those of us who keep pets is this, we tend to forget that like humans, one cham is not like the next. What might kill one human ( a lifetime of eating meat ) might not kill the next human ( a human who eats meat and didn't suffer a heart attack from clogged artieries ).

Like this example, I have seen over many years of keeping Chams that what works for one doesn't always work for another of the same species. Yes there are some general guildlines that apply, but these animals are individuals.

Case in point, I have a pair of Mt. Meru Jacksons. The two don't like the same foods despite nearly everything else being identical. One loves dubia roaches, the other gives me the finger if I offer them. One loves silkworms, the other walks over them. Both will eat crickets, but only one from a cup and the other only if they are on the screen of the cage. Both enjoy Supers, I do however make sure they get smaller supers than they can handle since larger ones I worry might bite them. Butterworms... they look at me with hate in their small eyes.

My point being, s o as to not scare off multiple cham keepers from what is a solid source of food in the supers, is that all animals are individuals. I would never suggest anybody give a diet consisting of mostly one type of food, variety is key in keeping these animals healthy


Never overdo any kind of food type. If all I ate was red meat I'd have gout over time. In the case of your little buddy I'd hazard a guess it was a combination of diet and other factors (genetic in some cases). I wouldn't blame you however.

 

[williamsrx]

Can you post a picture of your cham giving you the finger? I laughed out loud at my work on that one!

Seriously though, what was said in the above post is spot on. The key to these guys is understanding that your mileage may vary on feeding, etc. My adult Ambanja has developed a taste for worms only - butterworms, superworms, hornworms, silkworms, but won't touch a cricket or roach anymore. I could play hardball and starve him a little to get him to eat them, but I have chosen to just keep a variety of worms around to feed him. It's way more expensive that way for sure, but he's healthy so I'm happy.

 

[chameleonneeds]

Wo

Very sorry for your loss.

I fully believe a varied diet is absolutely best - that NO one feeder should form more than half the chameleons diet. And supers are not an ideal food choice (I suggest limiting to 20% of the diet).

However, I have to wonder if perhaps the superworm diet was NOT entirely responsible for the death. There are several people on this forum that have used superworms exclusively (for a variety of reasons) for years without causing death, and indeed in many cases without causing any apparent harm at all. Perhaps they gutload differently, provide more water, feed less overal - hard to know.

joneill, you did not purposefully cause the death - you are not a murderer. I know you feel somewhat responsible. But you obviously cared about the animal and did not intend this to happen.

If you get another chameleon, you might consider adding termites (which I noticed were quite plentiful when I was in SA) as a part of what you offer.

Termits you say Sandra?
I would be scared to feed my chameleons termits, won't they bite them? I'm always looking for new ideas though for feeders, I plan on getting some snails going, I'm getting 2 giant snails from a friend and he says the babies hatch out to be perfect size for chams to eat
But back to termites, I have some 3 and 4 month old panthers aswell as a 5 month old female veiled and an 8 month old female being added to my collection sometime soon. A problem with my baby male panther is he doesn't eat too much crickets (by choice) and rather takes down every single mealworm I put in (meal worm, not superworm) I was wondering if this is okay (him eating so many mealworms instead of crickets)? I'm worried about his feeding habits, he should be a very eager eater at his age!

And to the OP, sorry for your loss. Also nice to see yet another South African has joined the forums. I am breeding panther and veiled chameleons in the near future (again) if you are looking for any new chameleons give me a shout I'm sure I can help you out!

-Tyrone