Vet over video call?

[ssc97]

this is Cham a bit more stretched out. I’ve administered the Nutrabol and she drank this morning.
If it is vit a, how soon should I expect to see her start getting better?

also I ordered D3 from Arcadia and Repashy Vit A coming tomorrow

how often should I dose her with Vit A / D3 given her state? I assume maybe more than weekly atm to get her back to Normal?

 

[ssc97]

Update: right eye open and she seems to have a bit of energy / is alert now. Left eye still closed but I think she can kind of see out of it in a slit

 

[ssc97]

Bump. Anyone able to help??

 

[Beman]

I ordered this on Amazon, coming on Wednesday: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00BY9IMB0?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image

Should I try to get her something sooner like tomorrow? I don’t know how much time she has?

I can’t get anything for reptiles sooner than Wednesday. Read some people dose their chams with retinol palymitate from small drops of human supplements? Should I go to the pharmacy tomorrow?

This is too much vitamin A. Vitamin A is a fat soluble supplement. So you can overdose them and cause even more issues. You want one of these because you are missing calcium with D3 too
Arcadia RevitaliseD3 (must be used with proper T5 UVB lighting at the correct UVI level), Repashy calcium Plus LoD version, Or Reptivite with D3.

 

[Beman]

View attachment 299692pic of her from the back. Her light hasn’t gone on yet. She’s usually a solid green so that is the spotty colour I mentioned she’s been doing a bit recently.
I will take a pic of her eyes when her light goes on as she’s currently facing away from me

View attachment 299693

I made an appointment with a second vet but the earliest they could do is Friday morning. Will she be ok until Friday?

This has nothing to do with Vitamin A... This was why I was not jumping to that and why Kinyonga was digging for more info regarding laying.

She is holding a ton of eggs. She needs to lay them. Please show us the lay bin and tell us what material you are using in it.

 

[ssc97]

This is too much vitamin A. Vitamin A is a fat soluble supplement. So you can overdose them and cause even more issues. You want one of these because you are missing calcium with D3 too
Arcadia RevitaliseD3 (must be used with proper T5 UVB lighting at the correct UVI level), Repashy calcium Plus LoD version, Or Reptivite with D3.

Ok so should I get something else instead for Vit A? She looks a bit better after I gave her some Nutrabol but not 100%. Only right eye open and not 100% either so I assume I need to continue supplementing her somehow.

I ordered the Arcadia RevitaliseD3 yesterday (sorry I forgot to say). I just ordered Reptivite with D3 which is supposed to come tomorrow.

 

[Beman]

Ok so should I get something else instead for Vit A? She looks a bit better after I gave her some Nutrabol but not 100%. Only right eye open and not 100% either so I assume I need to continue supplementing her somehow.

I ordered the Arcadia RevitaliseD3 yesterday (sorry I forgot to say). I just ordered Reptivite with D3 which is supposed to come tomorrow.

You only want to use one of them and I would recommend the reptivite with D3 over all. Make sure it is the with D3 version... But did you see my post after the Vitamin A? This is not happening because of that... She needs to lay her eggs she is holding a lot of them. Please show us the lay bin and tell us what material you are using in it.

 

[ssc97]

So it is one of these. I didn’t take a pic in the cage as it’s hard to see w/ the glass. It’s a round plant pot , 7.5 litres. 20cm across and 25.6cm deep. I filled it with soft compost soil and wetted it so it can hold a tunnel (but isn’t too wet it collapses)

is she eggbound? When I went to the vet’s last week the vet said she didn’t feel any eggs as I suspected this was possible. Frustrating that they couldn’t help her

 

[Beman]

View attachment 299710
So it is one of these. I didn’t take a pic in the cage as it’s hard to see w/ the glass. It’s a round plant pot , 7.5 litres. 20cm across and 25.6cm deep. I filled it with soft compost soil and wetted it so it can hold a tunnel (but isn’t too wet it collapses)

is she eggbound? When I went to the vet’s last week the vet said she didn’t feel any eggs as I suspected this was possible. Frustrating that they couldn’t help her

Then you need a new vet... All those lumps in her belly sitting back towards her back legs are eggs... You need someone that is actually skilled in Chameleons. She could be egg bound... Not sure though depending on how weak she is. This is why she went off food.

You need a proper lay bin....

Get a tub you only need a depth of about 5-6 inches of playsand. You want playsand for it. typically the keepers in this forum use only the moist sand because it holds a tunnel. You will follow how they rinse it in this video. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/ Dig a test tunnel for her. make sure it holds. She may even use it.
@AmandaS can you assist on this one if there is anything I am missing?

@

 

[ssc97]

Ok thanks. I have a box like that so I will clean it out and pop it in her cage as a lay bin. I will run out to get play sand.

I am trying to get an emergency vet appt but honestly there's almost no vets around here that specialize in chams. That's why this is such a mess in the first place

Any other way I can make her comfortable enough to try to lay her eggs?

 

[Beman]

Ok thanks. I have a box like that so I will clean it out and pop it in her cage as a lay bin. I will run out to get play sand.

I am trying to get an emergency vet appt but honestly there's almost no vets around here that specialize in chams. That's why this is such a mess in the first place

Any other way I can make her comfortable enough to try to lay her eggs?

Work on the lay bin... This is extremely important. Dig the test tunnel. I am kinda hoping if she is weaker she will choose to use that. Follow that video on rinsing the playsand.

Let us know when your done with that and have it in place. She needs to be able to get down into it and if possible set it in the back of the cage with plants in front of it. You can try placing her down in it and see if she starts to do what she needs to.

Take pics of everything when your done so we can see it and the final placement in the cage. By then @kinyonga and @AmandaS should be online to help with anything that I may have forgotten.

I personally would not force feed her. They go off food when they are going to lay.

 

[ssc97]

Work on the lay bin... This is extremely important. Dig the test tunnel. I am kinda hoping if she is weaker she will choose to use that. Follow that video on rinsing the playsand.

Let us know when your done with that and have it in place. She needs to be able to get down into it and if possible set it in the back of the cage with plants in front of it. You can try placing her down in it and see if she starts to do what she needs to.

Take pics of everything when your done so we can see it and the final placement in the cage. By then @kinyonga and @AmandaS should be online to help with anything that I may have forgotten.

I personally would not force feed her. They go off food when they are going to lay.

She seems to have quite a bit of energy atm. I called the vet (a different one that originally couldn't see her until Friday) and basically begged them to see her and they said they will run an xray and examine her between other appts tomorrow morning so good result on that front... Hopefully if its a big issue they can solve it...

I will work on the lay bin (especially for moving forward -- definitely don't want this happening again..) but I am going to have to order some stuff in for it so I feasibly unfortunately can't set it up tonight. She's got a bunch more energy and is smashing through her plants today after the multivit so maybe it is a vit a and pregnant combination?

I haven't fed her since last thurs. I am leaving her be. Other than making sure she gets enough water

 

[Beman]

She seems to have quite a bit of energy atm. I called the vet (a different one that originally couldn't see her until Friday) and basically begged them to see her and they said they will run an xray and examine her between other appts tomorrow morning so good result on that front... Hopefully if its a big issue they can solve it...

I will work on the lay bin (especially for moving forward -- definitely don't want this happening again..) but I am going to have to order some stuff in for it so I feasibly unfortunately can't set it up tonight. She's got a bunch more energy and is smashing through her plants today after the multivit so maybe it is a vit a and pregnant combination?

I haven't fed her since last thurs. I am leaving her be. Other than making sure she gets enough water

Ok while she has energy we need her to lay those eggs... They may give her something to help her lay them. But I would not force feed her at all. Part of egg laying is that they go off food. It makes it much harder for them to pass fecal when they are holding all those eggs.

Yes, supplements play into their entire health picture. But I do not think that is what we are looking at here. Fortunately you were using the EP-A which is a very good product so calcium deficiency should not be an issue.

Let us know what the vet says. Once she gets through this clutch it would be good to know how many eggs total she had. There are methods we use to reduce clutch size and we can give you the info on that. Larger clutches shorten their life and pose a higher risk of egg binding.

 

[kinyonga]

To get her to lay the eggs...if it isn't too late already, she needs a proper egglaying bin...with a substrate she will be happy with and the peace/privacy to lay them.

If you've overfeed her, kept her too warm, not given he what she needs to lay the eggs then she could very well be eggbound.

You've been shown an egg laying bin. washed playsand, just moist enough to hold a tunnel, always seems to work as a substrate.

Do not bother her any more than ABSOLUTELY necessary....if she starts digging do not let her see you watching her at all. Cover the sides of the cage with a sheet so she has privacy.

If she still has the eye issue after she lays the eggs it can be worked on more then....as long as it doesn't get really bad in the meantime.

As for supplements...you need a phos free calcium powder to use on all feedings but one a week. On that one feeding a week, alternate between a phos free calcium/D3 powder and a vitamin powder that contains a prEformed source of vitamin A. Do all dusting a lightly. I'm trying to simplify it for you. There are other combinations of supplements heat work too....but I don't want it to be confusing.

D3 from supplements can build up in the system as can prEformed sources of vitamin A so we have to be careful with them...BTW.

You need to feed/gutload the insects properly too. For crickets, locusts, roaches, superworms you can use a wide variety of greens such as dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, and veggies such as squash, sweet potato sweet red pepper, zucchini and a very very small amount of fruit like berries, apples, pears, melon, papaya, etc.

 

[ssc97]

Ok while she has energy we need her to lay those eggs... They may give her something to help her lay them. But I would not force feed her at all. Part of egg laying is that they go off food. It makes it much harder for them to pass fecal when they are holding all those eggs.

Yes, supplements play into their entire health picture. But I do not think that is what we are looking at here. Fortunately you were using the EP-A which is a very good product so calcium deficiency should not be an issue.

Let us know what the vet says. Once she gets through this clutch it would be good to know how many eggs total she had. There are methods we use to reduce clutch size and we can give you the info on that. Larger clutches shorten their life and pose a higher risk of egg binding.

Ok thanks. Yes I won't feed her at all.
Will definitely keep you updated with what the vet says! very keen on learning more on reducing clutch sizes

 

[ssc97]

To get her to lay the eggs...if it isn't too late already, she needs a proper egglaying bin...with a substrate she will be happy with and the peace/privacy to lay them.

If you've overfeed her, kept her too warm, not given he what she needs to lay the eggs then she could very well be eggbound.

You've been shown an egg laying bin. washed playsand, just moist enough to hold a tunnel, always seems to work as a substrate.

Do not bother her any more than ABSOLUTELY necessary....if she starts digging do not let her see you watching her at all. Cover the sides of the cage with a sheet so she has privacy.

If she still has the eye issue after she lays the eggs it can be worked on more then....as long as it doesn't get really bad in the meantime.

As for supplements...you need a phos free calcium powder to use on all feedings but one a week. On that one feeding a week, alternate between a phos free calcium/D3 powder and a vitamin powder that contains a prEformed source of vitamin A. Do all dusting a lightly. I'm trying to simplify it for you. There are other combinations of supplements heat work too....but I don't want it to be confusing.

D3 from supplements can build up in the system as can prEformed sources of vitamin A so we have to be careful with them...BTW.

You need to feed/gutload the insects properly too. For crickets, locusts, roaches, superworms you can use a wide variety of greens such as dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, and veggies such as squash, sweet potato sweet red pepper, zucchini and a very very small amount of fruit like berries, apples, pears, melon, papaya, etc.

I can't get a new egg laying bin tonight but is there a way of trying to coax her in to the current one? Like gently placing her down into it or something?

I haven't seen her try to dig but she has been moving to the edges of the cage all round so perhaps that's her trying to find a space.

I got the reptivite d3 which I think covers A and D3? I will continue using my Arcadia for calcium. Plan is to gutload her feeders once she starts eating again as per usual. We are vegetarian here so we give the feeders our scraps, always fresh and organic veg / fruit

 

[Beman]

She should not be put into the planter. That does not look like it is big enough and it does not look like it will hold a tunnel. You do not want a tunnel collapsing on her. This can kill them because they suffocate under the dirt.

She is looking for a place. But she could hold the eggs in and this is when egg binding happens. This kills them.

 

[ssc97]

She should not be put into the planter. That does not look like it is big enough and it does not look like it will hold a tunnel. You do not want a tunnel collapsing on her. This can kill them because they suffocate under the dirt.

She is looking for a place. But she could hold the eggs in and this is when egg binding happens. This kills them.

Ok, so best bet probably the vet then? While she’s there I can work on setting it all up... I remembered I have a large Tupperware. Would this work maybe?

Also have a small compost bin attached if that could work?

 

[Beman]

Ok, so best bet probably the vet then? While she’s there I can work on setting it all up... I remembered I have a large Tupperware. Would this work maybe?View attachment 299722
Also have a small compost bin attached if that could work?

What are the dimensions of the tupperwear?

 

[kinyonga]

IMHO you should be feeding the insects well all the time....or they won't be healthy when they're fed to her when she does eat.