Vet help?

[Edward Kim]

Vets,

I currently have a 1 year old Jackson’s merumontanum that has a small oral abscess located on his right cheek. My local vet gave me a bottle of 5% (mexican) Baytril and recommended a dosage of 9 mg/kg per day. We weighed my chameleon in at ± 23.0g and calculated the dosage in at 0.207mg a day for two weeks. Is this medication and dosage common for chameleons with oral abscesses? The vet was inexperienced with chameleons and did not conduct a culture sensitivity test. Experienced vets in my location are hard to find...

New to forum, Edward

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Edward,

5% Baytril has a strength of 50mg/ml (http://www.poultry.baytril.com/134/Baytril_5_Inj_Solution.htm). This is about double the strength that I've used before which means that you have half of the fluid volume to work with and that makes it twice as hard to measure . I think that you would be better-off with it mixed down 10:1 to make it easier to measure as you'll see why with these calculations (assuming that I'm right ):

Your vet prescribed 9mg/kg orally(?)
Your chameleon weighs 23 grams
Calculates to a 0.207mg dose
Baytril at 50mg/ml means a dose of 0.004ml (really small) and that's hard to measure.
If it's diluted 10:1 then 0.004ml is 0.04ml which is more realistic using a diabetic syringe. You or your vet could mix it down in a separate sterile vial.

Dr. Greek has treated 500-1000 chameleons. I drive over 40 miles to get to him, passing about a hundred others on the way . Mapquest show that it's a shorter trip for you .

Yorba Linda Veterinary Hospital
Dr. Tom Greek
4872 Olinda St.
Yorba Linda, Ca 92886
714-777-2314

Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 7:30am-6pm
Sat 7:30am-1pm
Closed Wed, Sun.

He's a good guy. Good prices, good bedside manner, easy to work with. If you go there sometime, tell him I said: Howdy!

One last note: You have to be sure that the infection is completely gone. Stopping too soon will have a flare-up worse than before. Mammal vets often stop too soon for a reptile's slow healing process to have finished.

 

[kinyonga]

Did the vet clean the oral abcess out? If not, from what I've seen and read, its quite likely that the baytril won't get rid of it.

 

[Edward Kim]

Dave,

I'm officailly going to strangle my vet! I suspected that the dosage was WAY TO HIGH. I never started the treatment and notice that the swelling is starting to go down. I covered his cage to reduce stress and caught some house flies (his favorite) to up his protein intake. I'm hoping his immune system gets stronger to deal with the infection. Is this wishful thinking? If conditions worsen i'll go to the vet you recommended.
Thank you so much...

Kinyonga,

Thanks for the response. The vet didn't clean the abscess.

 

[kinyonga]

This is what I have always been told and what has been in my experience. A pus sample has always been sent for culture so that the appropriate antibiotic could be given....
"Abscesses must be treated aggressively. If they progress to a deep infection, joint infection, and bone infection the prognosis is guarded.

Treatment involves surgical intervention for aggressive debridement and drainage. Whenever possible, infected bone should b surgically removed. Often, amputation of severely involved limbs may be necessary for the chameleon to recover."
http://www.all-creatures.com/site/view/79378_Chameleons.pml;jsessionid=4497k8au7kj

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Soooooo....
You better go to the vet.

-Brad

 

[MWheelock]

It would be nice if you had a picture for us.

Certainly could be an abscess, but could be other things as well. Is it at the corner of the mouth or closer to the front?

The others are right in that if this is an abscess, an experienced herper, or vet could help express the pus (which is thick like cream cheese) to allow medicine to work. Also, you will need to get appropriate medicine.

Enrofloxacin comes in different strengths, but some of the large animal formulations not only have a higher concentration, they also are formulated slightly different. Not such a good way to cut costs. As far as dosing goes, the vet wasn't too far off, some vets use anywhere from 5-10mg/kg. However, dosing for such a small animal requires dilutions, and I would not recommend you trying that yourself.

My biggest concern is that you really check your husbandry with the others on this forum. Abscesses (not always) are usually due to lack of something in the environment you are providing. My guess with a jackson is that your humidity/ heat/ or UVB is wrong. (Maybe not though).

I'd get to a knowledgable herp vet before this becomes a worse problem that you cannot rebound from (reptiles usually slowly get sick, and more importantly are slow to heal)

Good luck,
Matthew

 

[Dave Weldon]

...I suspected that the dosage was WAY TO HIGH...

Howdy Edward,

I forgot to ask you if your vet told you the actual dosage volume, in milliliters, to use. If he didn't tell you how much of a milliliter to give your chameleon then I'd ask him to do the calculation at which point he may realize that he needs to dilute it for you .

 

[Edward Kim]

Matthew Wheelock,
The infection is located on the corner of the mouth. I had removed a subborn shed there yesterday and have notice the swelling has gone down. I wonder if the shed caused the swelling? In addition it may be an issue concerning the amount of uvb exposure as you stated. I do not use a uvb bulb instead I try to give them 2 hours of natural light a day. They use to get more but the weather has been in the high 90's so they stay indoors and are further supplemented with calcium and D3 two times a week. It may be time to invest in a bulb. Humidity stays in the mid 80s and the baskin temp was recorded at 85 F.

Dave Weldon,
I went back and the vet told me not to administer the baytril. The infection is going down on its own and he prescribed me an ointment instead. I got my money back for the baytril. I'll send pictures of the swelling when I get back home from work.

This is a great forum with alot of great advice. Thanks

 

[MWheelock]

The reason why I mentioned the corner of the mouth is that there is a temporal gland at the corner of the mouth that will sometimes get inflamed. It does not necessarily need to be removed but often must be dealt with by antibiotics. I've had some success with Zylafen in mild cases, but if you don't take care of the underlying problem, its not going to get you there.

It can easily be confused with an abscess.

I don't have time to give you the sites, but there are a few write-ups out there if you google it that show you pictures.

Good luck.

 

[kinyonga]

Try these....
http://www.mythicalchameleons.com/ivanjax.htm
http://www.chameleonnews.com/impulse.html